The Administration Thread

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The last thing I'm going to say on the subject of HMRC debt is that I can see the argument for saying that HMRC will not compromise on receiving 100& of what they are due, but I believe they will. I'm sure everyone is rooting for me ?

I as much as anyone else on here want the club to survive,i am not being a WUM but i just can't see where the money is coming from to sort out all the debt.The days of picking a club up on the cheap has gone as i see it.

[simmoram1995]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

Wayne's 40 players comment included the academy and especially the under 23s. I suspect that he hadn’t given the actual figure too much thought but he’s going to have to sign, or re-sign, 19 players just to get to a first team squad of 25 presuming all those still contracted want to stay. We will probably never find out what the agreed business plan will be and Wassall probably makes most of the academy decisions but whatever division we are in someone is going to have to make the largest number of signings in a single window since transfer windows began. Probably.

Tbh I don’t necessarily think a total rebuild is a bad thing!  As long as there’s no stupid unreasonable restrictions, then actually a  strategic recruitment of players is welcome.

 

I remember when we use to have about four of every position due to chopping and changing managers , styles etc be nice to literally just have a straightforward following:

x2 GK + 1 U 23

x2 RBs  one full time and one either on loan or u23

x2 LBs the same 

 

x4 Cbs  two first teamers , a back up and an u23

x3 CM/ DM depending on our style one of those u23

 

x2 RW  one an u23 

 

x2 LW  the same as above 

 

x3 strikers two competing first teamers and one u23 understudy 

 

have a policy of sell 1-2 high end value first teamers a year  utilise the money from these sales to improve squad 

 

promote 1-3 u23 a season 

 

far more sustainable approach for a few seasons 

 

so essentially 21 players in squad with option of  + two  loan signings 

 

 

[24Charlie]

4 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

Tbh I don’t necessarily think a total rebuild is a bad thing!  As long as there’s no stupid unreasonable restrictions, then actually a  strategic recruitment of players is welcome.

 

I remember when we use to have about four of every position due to chopping and changing managers , styles etc be nice to literally just have a straightforward following:

x2 GK + 1 U 23

x2 RBs  one full time and one either on loan or u23

x2 LBs the same 

 

x4 Cbs  two first teamers , a back up and an u23

x3 CM/ DM depending on our style one of those u23

 

x2 RW  one an u23 

 

x2 LW  the same as above 

 

x3 strikers two competing first teamers and one u23 understudy 

 

have a policy of sell 1-2 high end value first teamers a year  utilise the money from these sales to improve squad 

 

promote 1-3 u23 a season 

 

far more sustainable approach for a few seasons 

 

so essentially 21 players in squad with option of  + two  loan signings 

 

 

Will give himself this headache when he can just go to Everton at the end of the season? Frank is really messing it up there.

[CornwallRam]

I think liquidation and restarting as a pheonix must be under discussion. Especially if we really can start in League 2.

Unless we can find a bidder to pay the full amount to get a CVA and avoid a points deduction, I reckon pheonixing looks a better option.

Next season in League 1 with a points deduction, 6 players and a two year business plan imposed by the EFL for £25m. Or League 2, no players, but no business plan or points deduction for £5m.

The figures are obviously guesses, but you can see the basis for a discussion at least. 

[Jimbo Ram]

I thought I read somewhere that a deal with HMRC had been agreed ? Have I missed something? Why suddenly all the doom and gloom and talk of liquidation?

[hintonsboots]

8 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I thought I read somewhere that a deal with HMRC had been agreed ? Have I missed something? Why suddenly all the doom and gloom and talk of liquidation?

Didn’t the Sports Minister or his sidekick say that HMRC wouldn’t be a sticking point and now the main parasite has been exterminated, what are the hurdles to an imminent PB announcement??

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Didn’t the Sports Minister or his sidekick say that HMRC wouldn’t be a sticking point and now the main parasite has been exterminated, what are the hurdles to an imminent PB announcement??

Exactly ?

[ilkleyram]

17 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

Tbh I don’t necessarily think a total rebuild is a bad thing!  As long as there’s no stupid unreasonable restrictions, then actually a  strategic recruitment of players is welcome.

 

I remember when we use to have about four of every position due to chopping and changing managers , styles etc be nice to literally just have a straightforward following:

x2 GK + 1 U 23

x2 RBs  one full time and one either on loan or u23

x2 LBs the same 

 

x4 Cbs  two first teamers , a back up and an u23

x3 CM/ DM depending on our style one of those u23

 

x2 RW  one an u23 

 

x2 LW  the same as above 

 

x3 strikers two competing first teamers and one u23 understudy 

 

have a policy of sell 1-2 high end value first teamers a year  utilise the money from these sales to improve squad 

 

promote 1-3 u23 a season 

 

far more sustainable approach for a few seasons 

 

so essentially 21 players in squad with option of  + two  loan signings 

 

 

I agree. There’ll be 3 main issues. Firstly that we can pay enough to attract promotion quality players, whichever division, and including resignings; secondly that the debts and business plan allow us something of a transfer budget so that we’re not chasing free transfers only; and thirdly us fans - we will need to allow time for the team to gel and that may not be until the second half of the season. Patience and support will be required.

IMO Rooney staying will be really important. The most important signing we will make.  Not impossible if he goes but someone else raises the risk and removes any media attention we will get in League 1.  Staying in the Championship will help with transfers and attention no end.

[SirBrian]

3 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Didn’t the Sports Minister or his sidekick say that HMRC wouldn’t be a sticking point and now the main parasite has been exterminated, what are the hurdles to an imminent PB announcement??

Would imagine the £5 million non returnable deposit, does not matter how rich you are its still a lot of money to risk, other than guarenteeing the administrators their 30 pieces of silver.

[Ram-Alf]

8 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I thought I read somewhere that a deal with HMRC had been agreed ? Have I missed something? Why suddenly all the doom and gloom and talk of liquidation?

I'm not sure but I think Q might have said it, Then again Q have said things that haven't been true, So take it as ?‍♂️

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

34 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think liquidation and restarting as a pheonix must be under discussion. Especially if we really can start in League 2.

Unless we can find a bidder to pay the full amount to get a CVA and avoid a points deduction, I reckon pheonixing looks a better option.

Next season in League 1 with a points deduction, 6 players and a two year business plan imposed by the EFL for £25m. Or League 2, no players, but no business plan or points deduction for £5m.

The figures are obviously guesses, but you can see the basis for a discussion at least. 

League 2 preferable but wouldn’t Derby start lower than that? I can’t see how minus 15 in league 1 would be in anyone’s interest. Liquidation surely more likely than creditors not paid and on minus 15. Hopefully everything sorted to not incur points deduction however and we can stil be a club next year and not hamstrung with another deduction.

Edited March 8, 2022 by TheresOnlyWanChope

[PistoldPete]

48 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think liquidation and restarting as a pheonix must be under discussion. Especially if we really can start in League 2.

Unless we can find a bidder to pay the full amount to get a CVA and avoid a points deduction, I reckon pheonixing looks a better option.

Next season in League 1 with a points deduction, 6 players and a two year business plan imposed by the EFL for £25m. Or League 2, no players, but no business plan or points deduction for £5m.

The figures are obviously guesses, but you can see the basis for a discussion at least. 

Wigan were liquidated and only paid unsecured creditors including Hmrc 25%. They didn’t suffer any further penalties from EFL apart from the original 12 point penalty for going into admin and even that they contested. 
 

I don’t see that Hmrc preferred creditor status ( which they didn’t have at the time of Wigan) should really affect things . Provided we pay unsecured creditors 25% Efl should not punish us anymore .

[CornwallRam]

21 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

League 2 preferable but wouldn’t Derby start lower than that? I can’t see how minus 15 in league 1 would be in anyone’s interest. Liquidation surely more likely than creditors not paid and on minus 15. Hopefully everything sorted to not incur points deduction however and we can stil be a club next year and not hamstrung with another deduction.

There was an article a few weeks ago that claimed there was an outline plan from the EFL for us to be offered a place in League 2, should liquidation be the only option. It could be complete rubbish of course.

[CornwallRam]

7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Wigan were liquidated and only paid unsecured creditors including Hmrc 25%. They didn’t suffer any further penalties from EFL apart from the original 12 point penalty for going into admin and even that they contested. 
 

I don’t see that Hmrc preferred creditor status ( which they didn’t have at the time of Wigan) should really affect things . Provided we pay unsecured creditors 25% Efl should not punish us anymore .

I don't think the club were liquidated, it was the company that owned them. That would a restructuring plan, rather than a full liquidation...although I'm happy for someone more knowledgeable to clarify, especially if I'm wide of the mark.

[CornwallRam]

35 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I'm not sure but I think Q might have said it, Then again Q have said things that haven't been true, So take it as ?‍♂️

From the answer that Q gave to Rams Trust

The position with HMRC remains unchanged and has been covered in multiple previous meetings. They have requested an update which we will provide shortly. However, as we have previously advised, we have shared our draft proposal with HMRC which covered various scenarios. They were happy with the principles in that draft proposal. As previously advised, HMRC will not give formal approval to any proposal before it is in final form. We will provide that proposal once the preferred bidder is chosen and the exit strategy is confirmed.

[Curtains]

Why so quiet on takeover ! 

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Why so quiet on takeover ! 

I’m hoping the PB will be announced in reverse order as a tribute to Eric D Morley. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, Big Trav said:

What's really starting to confuse me is what's actually going on. Been told loads of times how everything's in place but were not seeing anything, and recently nothings coming out at all. First Mike Ashley was meant to be announced as PB then all of a sudden its cancelled.  The admins are keeping silent and presumably not talking to the EFL as nothings coming out through journos etc. I appreciate a lot of people don't believe a word that I say but also appreciate that some do and I don't want to give any false hope. The only possible explanations I can give at the moment is that there's funding until the end of the season and we still don't know what league the club will be in. And as you would expect the price for a league 1 club is massively different to a championship club with a clean slate. Other than that i really struggle to understand what is happening. Admins are keeping their cards extremly close to their chests.

1 person and only 1 mentioned hearing that MSD had tabled a bid of their own and that was the cause of the hold up.

I'm not saying it's true, but Quantuma did mention there being other interested parties at the 11th hour, so maybe there was someone who placed a rival bid that was worth entertaining.

The holdup simply cannot be Mike Ashley wanting to wait and see where we were at the end of the season, or why on earth would quantuma set a deadline for interested parties to table the bids. Equally with Quantuma, if they were going to wait until the end of the season and see what happens, that's easily communicated.

The silence suggests, one would hope, that quantuma were true to their word that they are assessing bids and a PB should be announced 'shortly'. 

 

[FlyBritishMidland]

Isn’t the supporters group meeting tomorrow?  I’m sure I read that somewhere.  Maybe we’ll find out a bit more on Thursday.

Personally I’m happy with the silence.  Just because no ones talking about it doesn’t mean nothing is happening.  We had lots of noise last week and all it did was create mass hysteria.

[angieram]

1 minute ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Isn’t the supporters group meeting tomorrow?  I’m sure I read that somewhere.  Maybe we’ll find out a bit more on Thursday.

Personally I’m happy with the silence.  Just because no ones talking about it doesn’t mean nothing is happening.  We had lots of noise last week and all it did was create mass hysteria.

Yes it is.