G STAR RAM Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: We are all guessing, especially Nixon. All we know is, as I have said some weeks ago when Nixon was pushing this before, is that Msd has legal charges on the freehold Of PPS. Which suggests Mel has a loan on the stadium. How much we don’t know. But if PPS is offered at a deep discount below the loan value then yes Mel would have to dig into his pockets for some readies to pay it off. Assuming he can. This was on the list of creditors and has been mentioned by the administrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: This was on the list of creditors and has been mentioned by the administrators. How is a loan from MSD to one of Mel's Companies (not in administration) a creditor of Derby County (in administration)? jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: How is a loan from MSD to one of Mel's Companies (not in administration) a creditor of Derby County (in administration)? Presumably MSD loans Mel's company £20m secured against the stadium, which Mel's company then loans/lends/forwards/whatever to the club. So the club owes Mel's company £20m, and they owe the same £20m to MSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawhillram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 It seems to me that the potential buyers want the stadium at less than market value, that’s were they see the real value, not in the club itself. I may be wrong Mel saw this too. r_wilcockson, Ken Tram and jimtastic56 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: Presumably MSD loans Mel's company £20m secured against the stadium, which Mel's company then loans/lends/forwards/whatever to the club. So the club owes Mel's company £20m, and they owe the same £20m to MSD. Highly unlikely, as too was Pete's initial suggestion that Mel has a loan on the stadium from MSD. The security granted by Gellaw will almost certainly be third party (aka indirect) security for MSD to fall back on if their loan to the Football Club is not repaid. I suspect, and I cannot be certain as it will not be a public domain matter, that the third party security might cross-support a personal guarantee also given by Morris to MSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: Presumably MSD loans Mel's company £20m secured against the stadium, which Mel's company then loans/lends/forwards/whatever to the club. So the club owes Mel's company £20m, and they owe the same £20m to MSD. Yes yes yes...no!, But who owns the stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said: Yes yes yes...no!, But who owns the stadium? jimtastic56 and Ram-Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Highly unlikely, as too was Pete's initial suggestion that Mel has a loan on the stadium from MSD. The security granted by Gellaw will almost certainly be third party (aka indirect) security for MSD to fall back on if their loan to the Football Club is not repaid. I suspect, and I cannot be certain as it will not be a public domain matter, that the third party security might cross-support a personal guarantee also given by Morris to MSD. A legal charge against the Gellaw Companies predates any legal charges on DCFC (albeit originally a charge levied by Ram Investment Ltd.) . so not sure why you think that necessarily the charge against Gellaw is only in a third party charge. But truth is none of us know and it’s not helped by Nixon quoting from Kirchner as neither Kirchner nor Nixon are reliable sources. As I say Kirchner tweeted Mel didn’t own the stadium which we both agree is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_RAM Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said: It seems to me that the potential buyers want the stadium at less than market value, that’s were they see the real value, not in the club itself. I may be wrong Mel saw this too. Possible but at present what is the stadium without the football team? I actually hope in the future we do utilise the potential revenue the stadium could generate a bit more. Bring the stadium bands back, it's been 15 years since Red Hot Chili Peppers played there, would love to see a return to this along side the football of course. Kathcairns and strawhillram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: A legal charge against the Gellaw Companies predates any legal charges on DCFC (albeit originally a charge levied by Ram Investment Ltd.) . so not sure why you think that necessarily the charge against Gellaw is only in a third party charge. But truth is none of us know and it’s not helped by Nixon quoting from Kirchner as neither Kirchner nor Nixon are reliable sources. As I say Kirchner tweeted Mel didn’t own the stadium which we both agree is not true. The legal charges granted to MSD by THE Derby COUNTY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED (Football Club) and GELLAW NEWCO 202 & 204 LTD were all originally created at the same time (6 August 2020) and all registered at the same time (11 August 2020). Edited January 12, 2022 by i-Ram typo jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood P Dowd Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 hours ago, Elwood P Dowd said: Just going off to check ? I checked and found it to be Wednesday, more inacacurate reporting. ? ck- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said: I checked and found it to be Wednesday, more inacacurate reporting. ? There's some folk on here that believe Percy, Maguire and Nixon are being fed information by the Administrators, When acctually they're getting the info from social media or the fairies...you couldn't make this up...erm yes you can? Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, i-Ram said: The legal charges granted to MSD by THE Derby COUNTY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED (Football Club) and GELLAW NEWCO 202 & 204 LTD were all originally created at the same time (6 August 2020) and all registered at the same time (11 August 2020). Yes but before that was the Ram investment charge from 2019 which was only against Gellaw, not DCFC. Did the mSD Charge against Gellaw just replace that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Ram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Pop Pop Pop (goes their bubble) RadioactiveWaste, jono, jimtastic56 and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dan_Ram said: Pop Pop Pop (goes their bubble) It's a buyers market. What a time this would have been to outspend others after a period of caution. ariotofmyown and jimtastic56 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 9-12 points would be interesting, very interesting. There must be others coming to the EFL party as well ?? jono, Kathcairns and jimtastic56 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 I won't hide the fact that I take ENORMOUS pleasure in seeing Bristol City and Middlesborough mentioned in that article. ? Ram-Alf, Betty Swollocks, David Graham Brown and 6 others 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Yes but before that was the Ram investment charge from 2019 which was only against Gellaw, not DCFC. Did the mSD Charge against Gellaw just replace that? Rams Investment Ltd is nothing to do with MSD. It was the Company used by Gabay when he was apparently lending Mel money. The charges have been satisfied and are no longer of import. I THINK all of the debt of MSD is in the Football Club, because it would be a lot easier to facilitate and administer one facility rather than 2. There needs to also be a very clear arms length arrangement between the Football Club and Gellaw 202 & 204 to keep the EFL and Gibson from indicating that rather than the Stadium being sold to separate third party back in 2019 it was effectively an inter-group sham. That would be hugely problematic. That is why I THINK also that the MSD charges on Gellaw 202 & 204 are taken to support a guarantee given to MSD by Morris. So if the Football Club fails to pay its debt to MSD, they can go after Morris, and have third party security to fall back on (appoint a Receiver for the stadium). There MAY also be commercial benefit implications as to how the security has been arranged. I am not going into that though, because we will then be down another rabbit hole. Lets leave it here Pete. I left a commercial lending environment 15 years ago, and my knowledge is not as good as it once was, and notwithstanding lots of things may have changed in the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: 9-12 points would be interesting, very interesting. There must be others coming to the EFL party as well ?? Why don't EFL just deduct nine points from everyone and then we can call it quits? hintonsboots, jimtastic56, David Graham Brown and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, PistoldPete said: How is a loan from MSD to one of Mel's Companies (not in administration) a creditor of Derby County (in administration)? Well you best inform the administrators that they have incorrectly included on The Derby County Football Club Limited statement of affairs filed at Companies House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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