Should Rooney be doing better under the current circumstances?

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, Kathcairns said:

Tell us who is better then, and would want to come in the position our club is in. You can please some of the people all the time.you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. Very apt at the moment, and agood saying for football in general.

You need to go back when he was appointed. We could have had Wassall/Steve Mac or gone for a younger Manager dong well in the lower leagues, an Ian Evatt or Ryan Lowe….someone who had at least some experience……rather than a novice with no managerial experience, coaching experience or coaching badges. It was a vanity project from Mel to get his face in the newspapers and had nothing to do with his credentials or ability to do the job. All of those I mention would have done as well if not better than Wazza, a 24% win rate isn’t great is it……but we will never know will we…..

[Kathcairns]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

You need to go back when he was appointed. We could have had Wassall/Steve Mac or gone for a younger Manager dong well in the lower leagues, an Ian Evatt or Ryan Lowe….someone who had at least some experience……rather than a novice with no managerial experience, coaching experience or coaching badges. It was a vanity project from Mel to get his face in the newspapers and had nothing to do with his credentials or ability to do the job. All of those I mention would have done as well if not better than Wazza, a 24% win rate isn’t great is it……but we will never know will we…..

Ok,younger manager yes, maclaren no,but as you say we will never know, but as i saidnot everyone will be happy whatever happens,we all have our own opinions which dos'nt mean we are right or wrong.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

Ok,younger manager yes, maclaren no,but as you say we will never know, but as i saidnot everyone will be happy whatever happens,we all have our own opinions which dos'nt mean we are right or wrong.

In the whole scheme of things we have much bigger things to worry about than who our Manager is, like survival as a football club. Need to get the new owners in and then take it from there ?

[Comrade 86]

16 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Tried making this into a poll.

So yes we have the points deduction and the embargoes. But let’s just forget that for one minute. With the current squad, removing any points deduction, we would be 21st in the ‘alternate table’.

Four wins from 21. 17 goals scored, with just three in our last nine away games.

One win in 11. 

We are the joint second lowest scorers in the league. On the flip side, we have one of the better defensive records with 21 goals conceded in 21 games. I think we’ve only conceded more than once in a game three times this season.

But how would you rate Rooney’s record with this current squad and the current circumstances? Did you expect us to be performing better (results wise)? 

So let me get this straight; we're being asked to assess an assumed 22 point haul with the same squad, but without any real world real context, ie the small matter of embargos, points deductions and all the other restrictions and inhibitors? Question: What's the point in that? I mean why not simply assess Rooney using material facts rather than make some poo up? Hardly an objective approach is it?

As for his performance, only the top three have better defensive records. I know our narratives wildly differ and this despite me not being Rooney's biggest fan, but surely that's not only pretty remarkable, but also reflects very positively on Rooney and the coaches? I don't think glibly alluding to our defensive output as 'one of the better records' is anything other than an obvious example of damning with feint praise. Let's have it right. Last season we seemed to concede every time opponents launched the ball into our box, so unless I'm mistaken, the difference is night and day. 

As for our goalscoring record, yep, it's poor, but given CKR has been injured all season and we have no other target man, might this at least partially explain why we are so easy to defend against, or should we be blaming Rooney for players getting injured (Knight aside) and the club's inability to find a proven goalscorer who was BOTH a free agent AND prepared to play for £4.5k a week?

I dare say if we had a Mitrovic, a Brereton or a Solanke in our team (or even half of one of their output) allied to our strong defensive unit, there'd be rather less appetite for artificial polls whose only purpose seems to be to provide a noisy minority with yet another opportunity to publicly vent their spleens.

Pure Poundland clickbait masquerading as debate, I'm afraid, and wholly unworthy of any purported professional content provider.

 

[Kathcairns]

32 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

In the whole scheme of things we have much bigger things to worry about than who our Manager is, like survival as a football club. Need to get the new owners in and then take it from there ?

Agree,??

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

So let me get this straight; we're being asked to assess an assumed 22 point haul with the same squad, but without any real world real context, ie the small matter of embargos, points deductions and all the other restrictions and inhibitors? Question: What's the point in that? I mean why not simply assess Rooney using material facts rather than make some poo up? Hardly an objective approach is it?

As for his performance, only the top three have better defensive records. I know our narratives wildly differ and this despite me not being Rooney's biggest fan, but surely that's not only pretty remarkable, but also reflects very positively on Rooney and the coaches? I don't think glibly alluding to our defensive output as 'one of the better records' is anything other than an obvious example of damning with feint praise. Let's have it right. Last season we seemed to concede every time opponents launched the ball into our box, so unless I'm mistaken, the difference is night and day. 

As for our goalscoring record, yep, it's poor, but given CKR has been injured all season and we have no other target man, might this at least partially explain why we are so easy to defend against, or should we be blaming Rooney for players getting injured (Knight aside) and the club's inability to find a proven goalscorer who was BOTH a free agent AND prepared to play for £4.5k a week?

I dare say if we had a Mitrovic, a Brereton or a Solanke in our team (or even half of one of their output) allied to our strong defensive unit, there'd be rather less appetite for artificial polls whose only purpose seems to be to provide a noisy minority with yet another opportunity to publicly vent their spleens.

Pure Poundland clickbait masquerading as debate, I'm afraid, and wholly unworthy of any purported professional content provider.

 

Why can’t we debate Rooney’s record as a Manager on a Derby forum? He has been in charge now for over a year. Beats endless debate on FFP and our accounts, points deductions etc etc etc etc. Why is it click bait?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

But the original premise of the poll was Rooney is doing the best he can so he can't exceed expectations as he's already doing his best. With a win ratio of 4 in 21. That's what the majority of the people polled subscribe to. 

Anyhows to avoid this dragging on I voted no as we threw away rubbish points against our relegation rivals so hand on heart can't say that we shouldn't have accrued more points at this stage. 

I don’t want to drag it out either but the original question was “should Rooney be doing better under the circumstances?”

Voting no doesn’t mean he can’t and there is no chance of survival.

I’ll refer you back to the Leicester scenario. I bet if you’d asked Leicester fans if Ranieri should be winning the Premier League with squad at his disposal I bet 99% would have said no but they still did.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Kingpin said:

Your aunty had a pair of testicles….

Everyone’s a comedian 

[strawhillram]

I’m not Rooney’s biggest fan, or his coaching team

[Andicis]

I don't think even with a different squad that Rooney would opt for a completely swashbuckling, attacking approach. But nor do I think that is necessarily wrong, plenty of successful managers have been built from a good defensive record. And we have a good defensive record, exceptional given the context. 

I think if we had a goal scorer upfront we would have turned a lot of those draws we have gotten into wins, and that would make a huge difference to how we view Rooney. Ultimately, that isn't his fault. 

I like how often we have turned to academy players, though admittedly I can't say how much of that is his decision, and how much of that is that there is no other option for him to turn to. 

I think time will tell how good Rooney can be as a manager, but this season is a free hit for him, in my opinion. Judge him on how he does next year, not this one. I certainly don't think we're underperforming with our current squad, it just isn't good enough. And that's fine.

[Kingpin]

31 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Everyone’s a comedian 

No. But ifs and buts… you know the rest. 

[Kingpin]

29 minutes ago, Andicis said:

this season is a free hit for him, in my opinion. Judge him on how he does next year, not this one

How many other championship managers get a proverbial “free hit”?

If this were the case it would reek of special treatment due to his name, which would be wrong. Regardless of mitigating circumstances.  

 

[Andicis]

9 minutes ago, Kingpin said:

How many other championship managers get a proverbial “free hit”?

If this were the case it would reek of special treatment due to his name, which would be wrong. Regardless of mitigating circumstances.  

 

What? How many other managers are under embargo with a 21 point deduction forced to use 40 year old defenders and academy kids? What would you disregard the mitigating circumstances unless you've already a bias against Wayne? We're down. I think he should have this season to tinker with styles of play for next year. Just my opinion.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Why can’t we debate Rooney’s record as a Manager on a Derby forum? He has been in charge now for over a year. Beats endless debate on FFP and our accounts, points deductions etc etc etc etc. Why is it click bait?

You can. Trying to stop you bitching about Rooney is well proven as a thankless task. Fill your boots mate.

And it's clickbait because as I've already clearly explained, the entire premise of judging Rooney's performance without taking into account any mitigating circumstances is the very definition of futility.

Edited December 5, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[Rich84]

6 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

It also feels opportunistic.

2 weeks ago we beat previously unbeaten away & top the table Bournemouth. Then followed it up a few days later with a point at top the table Fulham. Unbelievable results.

One last minute defeat to a top 6 side & a narrow defeat to an admittedly poor side later & Rooney's overall record is being dredged up. Little patience & little loyalty to a manager who has carried this club quite frankly since May.

This debate also forgets Rooney's role in attracting investment. I hope people don't kid themselves that his name & contacts haven't made us a much more attractive buy. Folk gnashing their teeth about liquidation on one thread & then demanding better results from a squad this weak is just a staggering lack of lateral thinking.

I think your 1st point about Bournemouth further supports my comments back on page 2, the squad have it in them but we were 2nd best in 1st half v Bournemouth as we were yesterday,  and he had to change it, mindset and/or personnel in 2nd half, it worked against Bournemouth but not yesterday,  so I think he can be doing better, especially against the likes of Bristol, get everyone to watch the change in mentality between halves in that game and actually start on the front foot, with options on the pitch instead of 1 creative player in starting 11. 

I know what you are saying about opportunistic because of who started the thread, but it doesn't mean it isn't a valid point. There are plenty of reasonable posters that have said they think he's coping well within difficult circumstances, but we should have more points on the board, so he should be doing better.

Off the pitch, I think he's shown to be a real leader with understanding and depth which belies the perception so many have of him, I will always be appreciative of how he's keeping the club viable during this time.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

And it's clickbait because as I've already clearly explained, the entire premise of judging Rooney's performance without taking into account anyy mitigating circumstances is the very definition of futility.

Spot on. You absolutely cannot separate the job Rooney has done and the circumstances in which he is managing. That is entirely an unfair and unbalanced way to look at things. Context is everything.

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Spot on. You absolutely cannot separate the job Rooney has done and the circumstances in which he is managing. That is entirely an unfair and unbalanced way to look at things. Context is everything.

Could have mentioned also that I'd sooner ead tedious FFP related content than needless sniping at the players and manager but really, what would be the point? ?

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Could have mentioned also that I'd sooner ead tedious FFP related content than needless sniping at the players and manager but really, what would be the point? ?

You mean you don't want to read a thread that is made in bad faith and with a loaded premise?!

[sage]

He could be doing better, but so could every manager in the world. Brian Clough could have done better. 

He is doing a decent job on the pitch and a good job off it. 

We have so much more to be concerned about than Rooney. He shouldn't be exempt from criticism, but it feels like every defeat is an excuse for agenda and I told you so  

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

You mean you don't want to read a thread that is made in bad faith and with a loaded premise?!

Hands up, you've got me there ?