Alan Nixon Breaks Silence on American Billionaire Bid

[AndyinLiverpool]

29 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Even 25% is better than nothing. If HMRC playing hardball caused the club to be liquidated, whether as a taxpayer or as Rams fan I would be extremely angry with them . they would be kissing goodbye to the remaining 25% (£7million) as well as any tax on future revenues or expenditure. Plainly that would be bull headed and daft. 

Though they might think it worth it to show other clubs that trying to pull the same stunt will fail.

[Eatonram]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Though they might think it worth it to show other clubs that trying to pull the same stunt will fail.

Did Leicester pay HMRC in full? Strange now that every other Club is allowed to know the minutiae of our finances but every other Club seems to be left alone by the like of the Mail......and this started long before administration.

[Eatonram]

27 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You do realise we are the only team to enter Administration during the Pandemic. Although based on your level of assessment the Pandemic probably has had no effect on any other of the 71 teams operating within the EFL pyramid.

And with all due respect I believe you are missing my point that as a result of the Pandemic most non parachute Clubs in the Champ ill be loaded with debt....they may not have entered Admin, some will have been saved by the loan that we were denied....but our Clubs finances have been scrutinised far in excess of any other Club, even before Admin.

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

Did Leicester pay HMRC in full?

Dunno - I doubt it, as I think the rules recently changed so that HMRC are now considered a preferential creditor, whereas before they were not.

We're the first club to go into admin since that change, so I guess they want to make an example of us. What's the point in changing the rule so they get all their money if we immediately set a precedent that says you can negotiate your way to a percentage cut

 

[Eatonram]

1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said:

Dunno - I doubt it, as I think the rules recently changed so that HMRC are now considered a preferential creditor, whereas before they were not.

We're the first club to go into admin since that change, so I guess they want to make an example of us. What's the point in changing the rule so they get all their money if we immediately set a precedent that says you can negotiate your way to a percentage cut

 

Such a "rule" does not take away the FACT that the alternative to making a deal COULD be liquidation in which case HMRC get less on the debt and also lose all future revenues........

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

And with all due respect I believe you are missing my point that as a result of the Pandemic most non parachute Clubs in the Champ ill be loaded with debt....they may not have entered Admin, some will have been saved by the loan that we were denied....but our Clubs finances have been scrutinised far in excess of any other Club, even before Admin.

But you miss the point too, which is that our finances came under scrutiny because we spent a shed load on crap players on large salaries, had to sell our ground, had to try to be clever with amortisation, didn't file our accounts for 2-3 years, didnt pay the taxman, and appeared on a TV expose regarding football chancers. Other clubs turn to be in the media spotlight will undoubtedly come - I agree with that - but at the moment the full glare of the lights are on us as Mel Morris turned us into a basket case.

[duncanjwitham]

10 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Dunno - I doubt it, as I think the rules recently changed so that HMRC are now considered a preferential creditor, whereas before they were not.

We're the first club to go into admin since that change, so I guess they want to make an example of us. What's the point in changing the rule so they get all their money if we immediately set a precedent that says you can negotiate your way to a percentage cut

 

The rule isn't that they get "all of their money" though, it just bumps them up the priority list a bit.  In theory it should make them more likely to get more of their money, but by no means does it guarantee all of it.  Given how little we have in terms of assets etc, 25% may well be all they were ever going to get.

[Seth's left foot]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Problem is we may get less than £10 million in a fire sale . First charge on any assets goes to Msd. So Hmrc still get nothing, in fact more likely to get nothing from a fire sale than a planned sale of players at higher prices.

Oh dear!

I didn’t think that they would get too much of the pie when HMRC are involved.

Even more reason then to arrest Mel if he won’t pay up.

[Seth's left foot]

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

Daily mail is stirring up trouble, usual rag newspaper stuff to fill out its pages.

It's unfair to blame administrators who are qualified in this sort of thing and will not do anything unethical or illegal.

Potential owners will have been versed on these things.

Kirchners aware of the club's full financials and still makes the trips to watch games.

Hes aware that hmrc would put the club onto a repayment plan.

The only other thing hanging over the club is the legal claims by Wycombe wanderers and Middlesbrough, I believe a good lawyer for Derby can crush those claims plus appealing to the efl as if these cases were won it would set a dangerous precedent.

 

Let those two claim off us… we’ll pay it out of our money from QPR and Villa. 
 

[Nuwtfly]

Seeing as the administrators have repeatedly stated that liquidation is not a likely outcome, I find this article, and its timing in particular, very odd indeed. 

A cynic might wonder if a certain someone, with a knack for putting stories in the papers to put pressure on our previous owner, might now be doing the same thing to the administrators, in order to push through a sale to their preferred party. 

[SSD]

Daily Mail do know how to my breakfast taste grim. 

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, Nuwtfly said:

Seeing as the administrators have repeatedly stated that liquidation is not a likely outcome, I find this article, and its timing in particular, very odd indeed. 

A cynic might wonder if a certain someone, with a knack for putting stories in the papers to put pressure on our previous owner, might now be doing the same thing to the administrators, in order to push through a sale to their preferred party. 

[BathRam72]

3 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

Daily Mail do know how to my breakfast taste grim. 

My wife does that daily and she doesn't work for the Daily Mail

[derby8]

HMRC and MSD still seem the biggest hurdles, debts nearly £50m between them. An idea could be to float shares, give the two largest creditors £50m in shares and raise cash via the prospective buyers for the rest. Derby County would be a plc with a range of shareholders. HMRC and MSD would have a chance of their money back in the years to come if DC successful, investors would buy their shares for cash. Better than liquidating DC and receiving nothing.

[PistoldPete]

49 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Though they might think it worth it to show other clubs that trying to pull the same stunt will fail.

They should judge each case on its merits. Any club trying to pull a stunt may well fail. Is there any evidence that a stunt is being pulled in the case of Derby County? And what is that stunt that you refer to?

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Seeing as the administrators have repeatedly stated that liquidation is not a likely outcome, I find this article, and its timing in particular, very odd indeed. 

A cynic might wonder if a certain someone, with a knack for putting stories in the papers to put pressure on our previous owner, might now be doing the same thing to the administrators, in order to push through a sale to their preferred party. 

The administrators are making money so it’s in their interest to be positive about things. 
 

HMRC debt has always been the key to potential buyers taking on the debt .

People in the know think the HMRC will want paying the full amount in installments .

We wait and see the outcome of HMRC talks 

[kevinhectoring]

10 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

 

 

11 hours ago, enachops said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10263765/amp/Derby-face-LIQUIDATION-unless-HMRC-agree-write-debt.html
 

Another delightful read! 

Why do they talk about the new owner ‘inheriting’ debt? I’d assumed the purchase price repays admin costs and as many liabilities as possible - and that the rest of the liabilities would be waived   

Edited December 2, 2021 by kevinhectoring

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Is it a I’d have thought its binary for HMRC ie that they either refuse a deal and elect for liquidation OR they agree to take what’s left of the purchase price after payment of admin costs, MSD, 100% of football creditors and 25% of unsecureds. 

 

Why do they talk about the new owner ‘inheriting’ debt? I’d assumed the purchase price repays admin costs and as many liabilities as possible - and that the rest of the liabilities would be waived   

Because they have to pay the creditors the full amount if they are preferential and 25 percent to the others 

Preferential creditor

Description

A preferential creditor is a creditor receiving a preferential right to payment upon the debtor's bankruptcy under applicable insolvency laws. In most legal systems, some creditors are given priority over ordinary creditors, either for the whole amount of their claims or up to a certain value.
 

HMRC are one since last January 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Curtains

[Elwood P Dowd]

2 minutes ago, derby8 said:

HMRC and MSD still seem the biggest hurdles, debts nearly £50m between them. An idea could be to float shares, give the two largest creditors £50m in shares and raise cash via the prospective buyers for the rest. Derby County would be a plc with a range of shareholders. HMRC and MSD would have a chance of their money back in the years to come if DC successful, investors would buy their shares for cash. Better than liquidating DC and receiving nothing.

Shares in what ? companies do buy debt but at a discount and only if there is a big possibility of getting the money back, Derby is a football club, football clubs normaly dont make profits, Derby dont even have any real assets on which to leverage loans, thats what the Glaziers did at Man UTD.

The club doesnt have any real tangable assets of any value which makes a deal with HMRC more likely, if HMRC did liquidate Derby they would be looking at pennies and would loose any TAX revenues the club might pay in the future.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

If HMRC playing hardball caused the club to be liquidated, whether as a taxpayer or as Rams fan I would be extremely angry with them .

Especially when they're happy to pay out tens of millions of pounds to keep West Ham in the Olympic Stadium, upgrade / adapt the ground for their use, pay for their stewarding costs etc