F1 2021

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

Max would beat Hamilton easily in the same machine. Full stop. 

Ah, the classic use of 'full stop' to portray fiction as fact. So convincing ?

[Andicis]

Just now, 86 Hair Islands said:

Ah, the classic use of 'full stop' to portray fiction as fact. So convincing ?

Derby are staying up. Full stop. 

[Alph]

5 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

Max would beat Hamilton easily in the same machine. Full stop. 

A 7 time world Champion that was cruising to an 8th today takes away your full stop. 

The way your dismissing Hamilton there amazes me. 

[Boycie]

I blame Keogh.

[Grumpy Git]

Imagine if Hamilton had been driving a Ferrari, the safety car would still be out now.

[Alph]

Tbh I hope nothing comes of the Merc protest. What's done is done. 

To rip that win away from the pampered poo would be cruel. Red Bull did their job.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Alpha said:

Tbh I hope nothing comes of the Merc protest. What's done is done. 

To rip that win away from the pampered poo would be cruel. Red Bull did their job.

It would be just though. I think it's more cruel that Lewis has lost the title winning record based on a decision made for viewing figures! 

Not RB's fault, or Verstappen's, but there is only one correct outcome. 

[Day]

Just now, Alpha said:

Tbh I hope nothing comes of the Merc protest. What's done is done. 

To rip that win away from the pampered poo would be cruel. Red Bull did their job.

Yeah there is no winners here, if they find rules were not followed, Masi has to resign and walk away with an apology.

Just can't see Mercedes taking this lying down, think it will get messy and ultimately go through lawyers.

 

[Alph]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

It would be just though. I think it's more cruel that Lewis has lost the title winning record based on a decision made for viewing figures! 

Not RB's fault, or Verstappen's, but there is only one correct outcome. 

Be very cruel to rip the title away from Max's hands like they ripped it away from Hamilton's. I don't think I could wish that on them, could you?

Just want to see the right people punished. But as we know with any sporting organisation... they never do. Money talks and ******** walks 

[Andicis]

Just now, Alpha said:

Be very cruel to rip the title away from Max's hands like they ripped it away from Hamilton's. I don't think I could wish that on them, could you?

Just want to see the right people punished. But as we know with any sporting organisation... they never do. Money talks and ******** walks 

It'd be cruel on Max, but ultimately it wasn't his title to strip. If the rules were followed, it was Lewis'. I'd wish that on them to ensure the correct driver won! It damages the whole legitimacy of the sport if that decision is allowed to stand. 

Masi has to go though. No way he can continue now. 

[Comrade 86]

I think the result may be overturned. Masi has arbitrarily breached not one but two FIA codes and adherence to either of those would have resulted in a comfortable win for the driver who was 11 seconds clear at the time of the safety car. It's all very well saying they wanted to finish the race actually racing but that kind of ignores the fact that Verstappen was actually losing time to a racer on tyres twice as old as his own. What's the justification? Yeah, we made a couple of huge mistakes but then we fixed them by allowing them to stand?

As for Masi, he needs to find another job as he's not got the spine required for his current role and clearly thinks he can rewrite the rulebook whenever it suits him to do so. Charlie Whiting is sorely missed, as not only was he scrupulously fair, he also knew the rules of racing which one might think a basic requirement of any supposed Race Director ?‍♀️

[Day]

It's cruel on Max now tbh, having this appeal over the results will leave some doubt during the celebrations.

If he deserved the win or not isn't really the question now, it's not his fault and I'm sure he would have wanted to win it under controversy that will ultimately leave an asterisk next to the name with fans.

Masi has to go, absolutely no way he can continue, that is clear.

 

[Comrade 86]

A final thought... While we consider the feelings of Horner, Verstappen and co, were the shoe on the other foot, does anyone seriously doubt that they would have appealed and if necessarily pushed it all the way to the civil courts to get the race result corrected and justice served? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Honestly, if I feel sorry for anyone it's Hamilton. Today and over the course of the season, he has earned the right to reign supreme at the top of the all-time charts only to see one man's folly rip it away from him. It may be hard on Max but surely there's a rulebook for a reason! This is not football and quite rightly, where retrospective rulings have been needed, they have have always been made (though not with Ferrari, I concede) Why should this be any different?

[Alph]

1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

A final thought... While we consider the feelings of Horner, Verstappen and co, were the shoe on the other foot, does anyone seriously doubt that they would have appealed and if necessarily pushed it all the way to the civil courts to get the race result corrected and justice served? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Honestly, if I feel sorry for anyone it's Hamilton. Today and over the course of the season, he has earned the right to reign supreme at the top of the all-time charts only to see one man's folly rip it away from him. It may be hard on Max but surely there's a rulebook for a reason! This is not football and quite rightly, where retrospective rulings have been needed, they have have always been made (though not with Ferrari, I concede) Why should this be any different?

I try not to think of how RB and Verstappen would be right now if the boot was on the other foot. 

Makes me think of flying to Abu Dhabi armed with bad intentions and a pitch fork. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Yeah, Masi has been bad all year.

I don't think he's tried to favour merc or red bull, i think he's just not got the judgment and authroity and instinct to size it up and decisivily deal with the decisions he needs to make.

Stewarding decisions have been inconsistent all year as well. It's easy to make a case either way about them favoring Max or Lewis, I think in the end Max probably got the better of it because he was on the edge far more and got away with quite a few that should really have been called (then when he does get called he say "but i was allowed the other one"), but Lewis has had some that would probably be penalised if he weren't Lewis Hmilton (this has always been the case to an extent in F1, where top drivers get away with more, I remember fuming at Schumacher a few times).

 

[Bob The Badger]

I used to love F1 in the 70s' and 80s' and then got a bit bored with it tbh.

I decided to watch today just because I have have SS and had nothing going on and got sucked in by the hype.

I didn't really care who won. It would be nice to have a Brit win 8 times, but I also have a soft spot for the Dutch and their rabid supporters so I thought it would be cool for them to have a world champ.

What an utter embarrassing cluster for the entire sport and now I realise why I drifted away from it.

Hamilton was cruising when one accident allowed MV back in.

He then started cruising to a win again when another accident let MV back in.

Then he has a 13 second lead wiped out and he has to start level to a man on new soft tyres with one lap left.

Who an earth can think any of that made any sense or was fair and when did Mel Morris take over F1?

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

A final thought... While we consider the feelings of Horner, Verstappen and co, were the shoe on the other foot, does anyone seriously doubt that they would have appealed and if necessarily pushed it all the way to the civil courts to get the race result corrected and justice served? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Honestly, if I feel sorry for anyone it's Hamilton. Today and over the course of the season, he has earned the right to reign supreme at the top of the all-time charts only to see one man's folly rip it away from him. It may be hard on Max but surely there's a rulebook for a reason! This is not football and quite rightly, where retrospective rulings have been needed, they have have always been made (though not with Ferrari, I concede) Why should this be any different?

Oh absolutly, the other way round, Red Bull would push it as far as they could, of course they would.

Ultimatly, i don't think the protest will get anywhere. The FIA will say the lapped cars would've dutifully jumped out the way for blue flags and thus not interfered once racing resumed and as such the situation does not mrit changing the result. It's obviously not actually the case, but probably enough "cover" for the FIA to be able to duck out of a decision they won't want to have to make.

[Remy the hare]

3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Yeah, Masi has been bad all year.

I don't think he's tried to favour merc or red bull, i think he's just not got the judgment and authroity and instinct to size it up and decisivily deal with the decisions he needs to make.

Stewarding decisions have been inconsistent all year as well. It's easy to make a case either way about them favoring Max or Lewis, I think in the end Max probably got the better of it because he was on the edge far more and got away with quite a few that should really have been called (then when he does get called he say "but i was allowed the other one"), but Lewis has had some that would probably be penalised if he weren't Lewis Hmilton (this has always been the case to an extent in F1, where top drivers get away with more, I remember fuming at Schumacher a few times).

 

Masi is the race director like a ref in the middle of the park. The 5 race stewards different ones at every race with at least one an ex F1 driver, (today’s ex F1 driver was Del-boy Warwick) make the final decisions. Masi refers incidents to the 5 stewards for judgment and what penalties are dished out. Masi to be fair has tried to let them race. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

Masi is the race director like a ref in the middle of the park. The 5 race stewards different ones at every race with at least one an ex F1 driver, (today’s ex F1 driver was Del-boy Warwick) make the final decisions. Masi refers incidents to the 5 stewards for judgment and what penalties are dished out. Masi to be fair has tried to let them race. 

I know that.

Michael Masi has been indecisive at the race direction and the stewarding has been inconsistent. Granted it's not always been an easy position for him to be in (Jeddah particually) but needs race control needs to be in control not urmming and arhhing as red bull and merc lobby him for what they think will get them an adantage in the race. Perhaps the selective radio that gets played makes it seem worse than it is, but it should be MM telling the teams what race direction is telling them to do.

 

[Comrade 86]

27 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Oh absolutly, the other way round, Red Bull would push it as far as they could, of course they would.

Ultimatly, i don't think the protest will get anywhere. The FIA will say the lapped cars would've dutifully jumped out the way for blue flags and thus not interfered once racing resumed and as such the situation does not mrit changing the result. It's obviously not actually the case, but probably enough "cover" for the FIA to be able to duck out of a decision they won't want to have to make.

Not sure that's relevant. Had the rules been adhered to the GP would have finished under the safety car so that defence is completely moot. The safety car can only leave the track at the end of the lap AFTER the track is cleared, not the same lap. As you say, I agree  that the FIA will likely try to wriggle out of their predicament but would a civil court find in RB's favour? I'd venture that's rather less cut and dried. If Merc make it clear that's their next option should the FIA choose to ignore their responsibilities, will the governing body be so keen to gloss over their errors or will they have to take their licks and do what is right. After the great publicity the sport has enjoyed this season, the FIA has managed to totally destroy the good will earned, so there are arguably wider issues in play too should they wish viewing figures to remain buoyant.

Edited December 12, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands
typos