Wolfie Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 5 hours ago, TexasRam said: The World Health Organisation has stated there have been ZERO reported deaths from Omicron. The scientists who found the variant claim it’s only shows mild symptoms. Why all mass hysteria and scaremongering? I can only think it’s because Covid is now a national obsession mainly driven by the MSM and those who believe them. Isn’t it right to be cautious until we know that the above is true? It’s still early days but the data looks really encouraging and if it’s a new dominant strain but with only mild infection then that’s bloody great and we can all properly get on with our lives. Stive Pesley and Miggins 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Miggins said: Maths and Science - never my strongest subjects, but wonder if anyone can answer the following as it's been bugging me all morning. I've read that there are more unvaccinated poorly people in hospital than vaccinated, the unvaccinated making up about 20% (?) of the population. However, I've also read that the vaccinated who make up (around 80% of the population ?) are also occupying most hospital beds, being the unfortunate people who have had their vaccines but still admitted to hospital possibly due their vulnerabilities. I'm in awe of those scientists who can work this out. Are there more unvaccinated people in hospital because they haven't been vaccinated or are there more vaccinated people in hospital simply because they greatly outnumber the people who haven't been vaccinated Sorry if this makes little sense, tying myself in knots here! Look at the age group 40 to 50. These are people who are still suscepitble to severe illness or even death, but still with many years of life potentially. So hospitals will be trying to save many years of life that would be lost , people maybe with young children. The stats above show that around 50% of COVID patients in this age group needing emergency care are unvaccinated, and around 44% of the deaths are from the unvaccinated patients. In that group , 80% have been vaccinated, the other 20% not. So at the basic level it seems there are four times the numbers of vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated , but equal proportions presenting for emergency care. So you are four times more likely to need emergency care or die if you have not been vaccinated than if you have not. It could actually be worse than that because as you say you would expect the people who were vaccinated to have more vulnerabilities than those that do not. It might not work like that though. Miggins and ariotofmyown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Miggins said: Maths and Science - never my strongest subjects, but wonder if anyone can answer the following as it's been bugging me all morning. I've read that there are more unvaccinated poorly people in hospital than vaccinated, the unvaccinated making up about 20% (?) of the population. However, I've also read that the vaccinated who make up (around 80% of the population ?) are also occupying most hospital beds, being the unfortunate people who have had their vaccines but still admitted to hospital possibly due their vulnerabilities. I'm in awe of those scientists who can work this out. Are there more unvaccinated people in hospital because they haven't been vaccinated or are there more vaccinated people in hospital simply because they greatly outnumber the people who haven't been vaccinated Sorry if this makes little sense, tying myself in knots here! In simple terms there are more vaccinated people in hospital with and dying from covid than unvaccinated *however* as a percentage you are more likely to be hospitalized or die from covid if you are unvaccinated. If 100% of the population was vaccinated, 100% of deaths would be amongst the vaccinated - it doesn't mean the vaccines don't work. There are a few caveats but this Goxt data shows the chances you have of dying from covid vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age bracket. Miggins and GboroRam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Isn’t it right to be cautious until we know that the above is true? It’s still early days but the data looks really encouraging and if it’s a new dominant strain but with only mild infection then that’s bloody great and we can all properly get on with our lives. We have the vaccine, why the need for caution? You’re right though good signs and hopefully we candrop these extra restrictions (until the next variant pops up and the MSM go into hysteria overdrive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggins Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Thanks, @PistoldPete and @maxjam. If I'd listened more attentively in my maths class I might have been able to work it out, but I spent most of the lessons wondering what on earth algebra and calculus had to do with life as I knew it and when I would ever need it. It turns out never. The only thing that made sense was geometry because I could see it more clearly and understood the application. So, there are more vaccinated people in hospital because there are more of them but percentage wise more unvaccinated. Thanks for your uncomplicated explanations!? maxjam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Miggins said: It's important that you protect yourself as well, @G STAR RAM. I have done, I have had the vaccine, if I'm not safe now then I never will be. Happy to take my chances now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 56 minutes ago, maxjam said: In simple terms there are more vaccinated people in hospital with and dying from covid than unvaccinated *however* as a percentage you are more likely to be hospitalized or die from covid if you are unvaccinated. If 100% of the population was vaccinated, 100% of deaths would be amongst the vaccinated - it doesn't mean the vaccines don't work. There are a few caveats but this Goxt data shows the chances you have of dying from covid vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age bracket. So I wasn’t far out with my estimate of four times more likely if you are unvaccinated ? At least based on the 40-49 age bracket. Thanks max jam Miggins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggins Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I have done, I have had the vaccine, if I'm not safe now then I never will be. Happy to take my chances now. I've just had my booster and so has Mr. Miggins. I think we are much safer now with the booster but will still continue to wear masks in shops just to protect ourselves and those we love, just in case. Even with my booster I realise that although I am much safer from transmitting or receiving the virus but I will never be 100% safe so it makes sense to back up the vaccine with a mask where necessary. As I've posted before, trust in God but tie up your camel!! Keep safe! Stive Pesley, angieram, RoyMac5 and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 7 hours ago, TexasRam said: The World Health Organisation has stated there have been ZERO reported deaths from Omicron. The scientists who found the variant claim it’s only shows mild symptoms. Why all mass hysteria and scaremongering? I can only think it’s because Covid is now a national obsession mainly driven by the MSM and those who believe them. What mass hysteria? Where exactly are the masses hysterical? The only person I've come across who is even verging on hysteria is you with your constant and tedious streams of gushing hyperbole. Instead of wasting half your days on here preaching to the unconvertible, why not get out an enjoy the freedoms you claim to value so highly. For all your bluster, I see no 'national obsession' at all, but I've sure as duck noted some obsessive individuals! Stive Pesley, ariotofmyown, Bob The Badger and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: What mass hysteria? Where exactly are the masses hysterical? Funny isn't it? The people you see accusing the media of hysteria are always hysterical themselves about it. As if there isn't a third way? (ie just ignore it) Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 (edited) Omicron could be the variant we are waiting for. A dominant variant which doesn't kill people. We don't know yet, so caution and research till we do. Edited December 5, 2021 by sage Norman, Andrew3000, Miggins and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: What mass hysteria? Where exactly are the masses hysterical? The only person I've come across who is even verging on hysteria is you with your constant and tedious streams of gushing hyperbole. @TexasRam isn't wrong about the covid being a media obsession though is he? We only heard about Omicron last weekend since then The Guardian alone have managed to publish the following articles... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/vaccine-resistant-what-scientists-know-new-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/omicron-what-do-we-know-about-the-new-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/dec/02/omicron-may-cause-more-covid-reinfections-say-south-african-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/01/covid-news-live-who-advises-vulnerable-against-travel-over-omicron-greece-to-fine-those-over-60-who-refuse-vaccine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/more-than-half-omicron-cases-in-england-are-in-the-double-jabbed https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/05/biden-administration-coronavirus-omicron https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/omicron-proves-were-not-in-control-of-covid-only-global-action-can-stop-this-pandemic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/omicron-covid-variant-poses-very-high-global-risk-says-who https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/dec/05/dealing-with-uncertainty-about-omicron-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/omicron-act-now-stop-nhs-being-overwhelmed-covid-variant-uk-ministers-warned https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/04/sage-scientists-warning-behind-scenes-no-10-omicron-covid-policy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/03/africa-omicron-rich-nations-pandemic-science https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/when-did-omicron-variant-arrive-in-uk-and-is-it-spreading https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/california-omicron-delta-continues https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/israeli-doctor-believes-he-caught-omicron-variant-of-covid-in-london https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/what-does-the-future-hold-for-coronavirus-explainer https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/28/what-does-appearance-of-omicron-mean-for-the-double-jabbed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/omicron-variant-fuelling-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases-say-south-africa-officials https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/omicron-covid-variant-record-rate-of-infection-south-africa-gauteng https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/new-covid-travel-rules-too-late-to-stop-potential-omicron-wave-in-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/omicron-covid-variant-present-in-europe-at-least-10-days-ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/how-probable-omicron-covid-variant-take-hold-uk https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/we-can-prevail-over-omicron-use-tools-we-have https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/30/moderna-boss-predicts-current-vaccines-may-be-less-effective-against-omicron https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/02/the-guardian-view-on-mixed-omicron-messages-christmas-party-politics https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/04/new-york-omicron-cases-rise-to-eight-as-official-warns-of-community-spread https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/omicron-covid-variant-discovered-in-west-africa-and-the-gulf https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/australia-and-omicron-how-and-when-will-the-covid-pandemic-actually-end https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/dec/02/will-the-omicron-covid-variant-cancel-christmas https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/02/coronavirus-news-live-south-africa-sees-exponential-increase-in-covid-cases-dominated-by-omicron-variant https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/04/covid-omicron-florida-republican-ron-desantis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/28/observer-view-on-omicron-variant https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/28/omicron-covid-variant-britain-southern-africa https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/dec/05/may-i-have-a-word-about-omicron-and-the-disneyfication-of-notre-dame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/27/suspected-omicron-covid-cases-found-germany-czech-republic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/some-countries-opt-for-caution-as-omicron-covid-variant-spreads https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/covid-19-variants-omicron-may-not-evolve-less-danger-time-nervtag-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/despite-reports-of-milder-symptoms-omicron-should-not-be-understimated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/omicron-first-case-new-york-anime-convention And those are only the ones with omicron in the title. This is from today; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/covid-government-to-make-christmas-decision-on-18-december 'Covid: Government to make Christmas decision on 18 December Measures introduced to halt the spread of the Omicron variant will be reviewed just days before Christmas' i-Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: What mass hysteria? Where exactly are the masses hysterical? The only person I've come across who is even verging on hysteria is you with your constant and tedious streams of gushing hyperbole. Instead of wasting half your days on here preaching to the unconvertible, why not get out an enjoy the freedoms you claim to value so highly. For all your bluster, I see no 'national obsession' at all, but I've sure as duck noted some obsessive individuals! Ok that’s your view and you’re entitled to it. I have my view and will preach all I want thanks (in-between enjoying my freedoms, going out with my family, seeing friends, going to the football, going to the pub, seeing a few gigs, walking the dog etc etc, my life’s pretty full cheers probably why my post count is half of yours). I see the news and the news papers everyday banging on about how bad it’s going to be. You only have to see questions on the briefings from the media to see how much they drive and push the hysteria. If you don’t see that the good for you, however you must have a very filtered view on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, maxjam said: @TexasRam isn't wrong about the covid being a media obsession though is he? We only heard about Omicron last weekend since then The Guardian alone have managed to publish the following articles... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/vaccine-resistant-what-scientists-know-new-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/omicron-what-do-we-know-about-the-new-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/dec/02/omicron-may-cause-more-covid-reinfections-say-south-african-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/01/covid-news-live-who-advises-vulnerable-against-travel-over-omicron-greece-to-fine-those-over-60-who-refuse-vaccine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/more-than-half-omicron-cases-in-england-are-in-the-double-jabbed https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/05/biden-administration-coronavirus-omicron https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/dec/04/omicron-proves-were-not-in-control-of-covid-only-global-action-can-stop-this-pandemic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/omicron-covid-variant-poses-very-high-global-risk-says-who https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/dec/05/dealing-with-uncertainty-about-omicron-covid-variant https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/omicron-act-now-stop-nhs-being-overwhelmed-covid-variant-uk-ministers-warned https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/04/sage-scientists-warning-behind-scenes-no-10-omicron-covid-policy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/03/africa-omicron-rich-nations-pandemic-science https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/when-did-omicron-variant-arrive-in-uk-and-is-it-spreading https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/california-omicron-delta-continues https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/israeli-doctor-believes-he-caught-omicron-variant-of-covid-in-london https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/what-does-the-future-hold-for-coronavirus-explainer https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/28/what-does-appearance-of-omicron-mean-for-the-double-jabbed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/omicron-variant-fuelling-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases-say-south-africa-officials https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/omicron-covid-variant-record-rate-of-infection-south-africa-gauteng https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/new-covid-travel-rules-too-late-to-stop-potential-omicron-wave-in-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/omicron-covid-variant-present-in-europe-at-least-10-days-ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/how-probable-omicron-covid-variant-take-hold-uk https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/we-can-prevail-over-omicron-use-tools-we-have https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/30/moderna-boss-predicts-current-vaccines-may-be-less-effective-against-omicron https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/02/the-guardian-view-on-mixed-omicron-messages-christmas-party-politics https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/04/new-york-omicron-cases-rise-to-eight-as-official-warns-of-community-spread https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/omicron-covid-variant-discovered-in-west-africa-and-the-gulf https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/australia-and-omicron-how-and-when-will-the-covid-pandemic-actually-end https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/dec/02/will-the-omicron-covid-variant-cancel-christmas https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/02/coronavirus-news-live-south-africa-sees-exponential-increase-in-covid-cases-dominated-by-omicron-variant https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/04/covid-omicron-florida-republican-ron-desantis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/28/observer-view-on-omicron-variant https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/28/omicron-covid-variant-britain-southern-africa https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/dec/05/may-i-have-a-word-about-omicron-and-the-disneyfication-of-notre-dame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/27/suspected-omicron-covid-cases-found-germany-czech-republic https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/some-countries-opt-for-caution-as-omicron-covid-variant-spreads https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/covid-19-variants-omicron-may-not-evolve-less-danger-time-nervtag-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/despite-reports-of-milder-symptoms-omicron-should-not-be-understimated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/omicron-first-case-new-york-anime-convention And those are only the ones with omicron in the title. This is from today; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/05/covid-government-to-make-christmas-decision-on-18-december 'Covid: Government to make Christmas decision on 18 December Measures introduced to halt the spread of the Omicron variant will be reviewed just days before Christmas' Which of those articles do you find most scaremongering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Which of those articles do you find most scaremongering? I didn't read them, I just linked them ? If the sheer volume produced by one outlet in a week doesn't nod towards @TexasRam's MSM obsession statement, I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, sage said: Omicron could be the variant we are waiting for. A dominant variant which doesn't kill people. We don't know yet, so caution and research till we do. Yes, except some of the reactions are too late and probably too much. A sledge hammer to crack a nut, which misses the nut. The Govt seem determined to destroy most of the travel industry with their reactions. Edited December 5, 2021 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, maxjam said: @TexasRam isn't wrong about the covid being a media obsession though is he? 8 hours ago, TexasRam said: The World Health Organisation has stated there have been ZERO reported deaths from Omicron. The scientists who found the variant claim it’s only shows mild symptoms. Why all mass hysteria and scaremongering? I can only think it’s because Covid is now a national obsession mainly driven by the MSM and those who believe them. Pop quiz - can you spot the difference? In fairness, you and Tex can bleat all you like about the evil MSM. I'll just ignore the scaremongering like most everyone else. Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Pop quiz - can you spot the difference? In fairness, you and Tex can bleat all you like about the evil MSM. I'll just ignore the scaremongering like most everyone else. Not sure what is so unusual about highlighting the words of a quote I'm referencing?!? Again, if the sheer volume produced by one outlet in a week doesn't nod towards @TexasRam MSM obsession statement, I don't know what does. Ignore it all you want, it doesn't make it any less true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, maxjam said: Not sure what is so unusual about highlighting the words of a quote I'm referencing?!? Again, if the sheer volume produced by one outlet in a week doesn't nod towards @TexasRam MSM obsession statement, I don't know what does. Ignore it all you want, it doesn't make it any less true. Read the posts again and see if you can discern a difference between a 'media obsession' and a 'national obsession'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 33 minutes ago, maxjam said: I didn't read them, I just linked them ? If the sheer volume produced by one outlet in a week doesn't nod towards @TexasRam's MSM obsession statement, I don't know what does. I didn't read them either. But judging by the titles none of them are talking up the chance of being hospitalised or dying. Mostly they seem to be talking about where it's been found recently. The closest to scaremongering seems to be a suggestion that we should treat it with caution (whilst still saying that it may be less dangerous than the other variants). I can't get bothered by the volume of articles. That's likely to be a result of the move towards rolling news and the preference for online over dead tree media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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