Marriot Ram99 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: How on earth will you deal with racism if not through politics? Do you really think everyone will treat each other with kindness, respect and equality if they don't have to? The real world suggests that society needs rules and those rules are given to people via politics and/or religion and education. It shouldn't be about Liberal democracy is what I should have said. It should be about politics but not our current form of toxic politics, a politics with respect of differences and realisation of pluralism, not my words I'm reading on democracy at the minute. Any how, I think big questions have to be raised about our 'democratic' forms of governance for a variety of reasons and in light of racism our current system is horrible for dealing with it. To summarise properly, in the current system of politics a for or against is created through consensus and the voting process, this leads to a "You are either with us or against us" mentality that is not how you solve these issues. Imo and other peoples opinion who believe in a more radical and representative form of democracy, politics involves dialogue and respectful disagreement this can't be achieved properly in the current system where people are branded either as racist or people of virtue. Quick and radical change might not be realistic but a transition towards that would be beneficial I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, nottingram said: I personally find it quite sad that people would be unable to look past any politics of taking the knee and not just see a group of people making a small protest to raise awareness of their peers being discriminated against. I genuinely can’t really fathom quite how someone’s brain can see that and think they are supporting the defunding of the police or any such silliness. This. I think it's quite telling that the players are, seemingly universally, behind it. With dressing rooms generally being quite multicultural, I imagine they hear their team mates' experiences first hand, which means they feel it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, nottingram said: I personally find it quite sad that people would be unable to look past any politics of taking the knee and not just see a group of people making a small protest to raise awareness of their peers being discriminated against. I genuinely can’t really fathom quite how someone’s brain can see that and think they are supporting the defunding of the police or any such silliness. Because it suits their agenda. We see it on multiple threads; doesn’t fit with their thoughts emphasise negatives beyond reality, it does then multiply the positives. So many appear set in their own opinions to suggest something else becomes a personal insult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Sparkle said: There does come a point when it needs to stop and we move on keep all politics and divisive issues out of sport and let us all enjoy sport rather than being turned off it. This might be true if it weren't for that problems occur in football itself ........... how long will these take to be sorted? The testimonies of our players give enough justification for us to support them, if they think its worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, nottingram said: I genuinely can’t really fathom quite how someone’s brain can see that and think they are supporting the defunding of the police or any such silliness. 3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: This. I think it could be a dangerous viewpoint. To not be able to understand what it is that these people are frightened of, are hating. They are people as we are, to make them 'other' is dangerous. To ignore them is also dangerous (we've been in a similar position politically some time ago). Both sides, or all sides need to try to understand each other. I do not say any side should condone racism though, to be clear on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Danelaw Rams said: Haha strange that it really bothers you if someone Of course I am interested in what you are defending. How can I make an informed comment otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Danelaw Rams said: Small protest? Where have you been...in hibernation? They have been burning and looting and murdering people ffs! The footballers have, have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Could someone remove the words “Derby County” from the title and move this out of the Derby County thread, as it has bugger all to do with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Danelaw Rams said: Why that's divisive? That was said in the houses of parliament? I don't want to change anything...I know what I defend... Do you? It’s divisive because you are undermining a positive message that the club and players have made a point to support. Also it’s not overly relevant is it, your aim is to try and confuse and disrupt that message much like many with your beliefs whilst the figureheads cling on to any sort of relevance. I defend equality, and when a section of our society speak out against inequality the very least I can do is listen and take on board the message. The worst thing I can do is attempt to quash their voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 I don't agree with people booing. If players want to kneel down, why should I care? What's the prescribed behavior for people in the stands though? Would just continuing my normal conversation during the kneeling be an issue for some people? What if fans just continued to sing football songs before kick off like normal? Would that be considered disrespectful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, RamNut said: Could someone remove the words “Derby County” from the title and move this out of the Derby County thread, as it has bugger all to do with us. Page 1 quote 1; why do our players take the knee. Pretty obvious really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I think it could be a dangerous viewpoint. To not be able to understand what it is that these people are frightened of, are hating. They are people as we are, to make them 'other' is dangerous. To ignore them is also dangerous (we've been in a similar position politically some time ago). Both sides, or all sides need to try to understand each other. I do not say any side should condone racism though, to be clear on that point. I probably didn’t word myself particularly well. To me, it is quite a leap to see ~25 footballers kneeling and think they are supporting a political movement. Surely you see that and think it’s a good thing that these individuals are using their significant platform to attempt to raise awareness of an issue that is a stain on society? Surely we can all separate the action of kneeling from the political movement unless we choose not to? Anyway, very good of DCFC to post this article. Hopefully a byproduct of this booing is that far more awareness of the issue is raised than if they’d just ignored it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, nottingram said: To me, it is quite a leap to see ~25 footballers kneeling and think they are supporting a political movement. Surely you see that and think it’s a good thing that these individuals are using their significant platform to attempt to raise awareness of an issue that is a stain on society? Surely we can all separate the action of kneeling from the political movement unless we choose not to? Yes I understand that. As you suggest, unless 'we' chose not to. And as I said that needs understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Red_Dawn said: Literally straight from the UKBLM fundraiser ”abolishment of the police”, “dismantle capitalism”, “redistribute wealth” https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund Yeah im not supporting that. Can you point to the abolishment of the police and redistribute the wealth parts please? I read your link 4 times and did not see those statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I listened to an interview with Harry Kane the other day. He spoke about taking the knee and his continued support. He said that it might happen that a kid watching might ask their parents why players are doing this and this in itself would raise awareness in that kid and the kids they associate with and so on. I found this argument quite compelling. That is a good point. The Neanderthals are what they are and the odds of changing them aren’t very high but if you shape a questioning young mind then you have a positive result ... change of majority attitudes is gradual and generational I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 wow. The “we’re not racist, we have a black friend” of responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Srg said: wow. The “we’re not racist, we have a black friend” of responses. It starts off badly - claiming to represent all Millwall fans - and tails off pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Srg said: wow. The “we’re not racist, we have a black friend” of responses. Weak as pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, sage said: Weak as pish. It's the Bud Light of statements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, rynny said: Can you point to the abolishment of the police and redistribute the wealth parts please? I read your link 4 times and did not see those statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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