Archied Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not being black I don't really appreciate that maybe saying we should 'all be the same' isn't right either. It's a very difficult subject to deal with so that all involved feel that it's been done well. Some people will never agree. But anyone who suggests that racism doesn't exist in the UK is totally wrong. So if it exists it has to be dealt with and if you are affected by it how long should you have to wait to feel something was being done that made things better? It definitely exists and definitely needs every effort made to eradicate it ,the hard bit seems to be finding agreement on the route to doing it ,,, before the blm stuff this year I did ask the question whether racism was raising its head in football grounds in a way that I hadn’t for many years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Except abolishing the police was also mentioned on the UK BLM website. They also expressed support for BDS, which calls for boycotting Israeli goods. I'm not supporting that. Defunding the police is nothing to do with abolishing the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Amongst who has it caused race relations to go backwards? White racists? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-poll From my own experience, I had my former CEO email the entire company stating that we needed to look at ourselves to recognize our own 'white privilege', and insisted we all contribute monetarily to BLM, and recommended racist literature to reeducate ourselves. Like I said before, divisive, and achieving the opposite of its supposed aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Just now, AndyinLiverpool said: Defunding the police is nothing to do with abolishing the police. The police force in the UK have many faults, but frankly its farcical to suggest they're comparable with the US. I don't want to abolish, or remove their capacity to do their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: So stop making out like you've had to endure real hardship, when all you've had to do is twiddle your thumbs in front of your laptop screen for five seconds at the start of each game. You don't know the first thing about me. And if you did, you'd immediate retract that rather silly statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: You don't know the first thing about me. And if you did, you'd immediate retract that rather ignorant and stupid statement. Apologies if I worded it ambiguously, but I wasn't making a comment on any hardship you may have faced in your life generally. I was making a comment on the ludicrous idea that watching players take a knee for five seconds is any sort of hardship to you, or is making you 'kneel at the altar of social justice'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Apologies if I worded it ambiguously, but I wasn't making a comment on any hardship you may have faced in your life generally. I was making a comment on the ludicrous idea that watching players take a knee for five seconds is any sort of hardship to you, or is making you 'kneel at the altar of social justice'. No worries, I appreciate that. I saw several commentators yesterday suggesting that those who boo’d should receive life long bans or be otherwise arrested or fined?! This is tennis, we’re football fans and frankly entitled to voice opposition if we so feel. Fans boo far more innocuous things every single weekend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-poll From my own experience, I had my former CEO email the entire company stating that we needed to look at ourselves to recognize our own 'white privilege', and insisted we all contribute monetarily to BLM, and recommended racist literature to reeducate ourselves. Like I said before, divisive, and achieving the opposite of its supposed aim. Yeah but in fairness Mr Brown, you’ve been touring this material for over 30 years now. You’ve got to appreciate the world has moved on a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Red_Dawn said: No worries. Thank you. I saw several commentators yesterday suggesting that those who boo’d should receive life long bans or be otherwise arrested or fined?! This is tennis, we’re football fans and frankly entitled to voice opposition if we so feel. Fans boo far more innocuous things every single weekend.. Is there not better ways though than what happened yesterday ? It wasn't just some harmless booing, it was aggressive with abusive language thrown into the mix for good measure. Just read their forum and there doesn't appear to be anyone offering a considered,non aggressive view. It's one expletive laden aggressive post after another. So yeah it's ok to disagree, but surely when the method of disagreeing becomes abusive and aggressive it crosses the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: The police force in the UK have many faults, but frankly its farcical to suggest they're comparable with the US. I don't want to abolish, or remove their capacity to do their jobs. I'm not sure who's comparing the two. The Black Lives Matter UK website has a disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the US movement and I cant find anything about defunding or abolishing the police. One of the things they are doing is: 'Support community organisations to train police on institutional racism and to create new strategies to build better relations between the youth, black communities and the police service, to build trust, that policing is by consent and not by racial profiling, unnecessary force and or police brutality' That's not abolishing the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sith Happens said: Is there not better ways though than what happened yesterday ? It wasn't just some harmless booing, it was aggressive with abusive language thrown into the mix for good measure. Just read their forum and there doesn't appear to be anyone offering a considered,non aggressive view. It's one expletive laden aggressive post after another. So yeah it's ok to disagree, but surely when the method of disagreeing becomes abusive and aggressive it crosses the line? Yep, I’m not sure whether booing is the right approach, and certainly not abusive language. it is Millwall though, that’s to be expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Good to see Millwall FC have issued a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-poll From my own experience, I had my former CEO email the entire company stating that we needed to look at ourselves to recognize our own 'white privilege', and insisted we all contribute monetarily to BLM, and recommended racist literature to re-educate ourselves. Why do you have a problem recognizing you might be in a position of privilege? Again why shouldn't that be considered - its a kind of mental 'stop and search' black people have had that for decades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 20 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Yep, I’m not sure whether booing is the right approach, and certainly not abusive language. it is Millwall though, that’s to be expected Why is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I'm not sure who's comparing the two. The Black Lives Matter UK website has a disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the US movement and I cant find anything about defunding or abolishing the police. One of the things they are doing is: 'Support community organisations to train police on institutional racism and to create new strategies to build better relations between the youth, black communities and the police service, to build trust, that policing is by consent and not by racial profiling, unnecessary force and or police brutality' That's not abolishing the police. Literally straight from the UKBLM fundraiser ”abolishment of the police”, “dismantle capitalism”, “redistribute wealth” https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund Yeah im not supporting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 It’s honestly shocking that there’s still racists out there in the world. But it’s ignorant to think there aren’t, even if you’ve never witnessed it yourself. I count myself very fortunate to not have to worry about being abused/mistreated because of the colour of my skin. And I suppose in some ways I’m quite lucky to have not witnessed anyone else be racially abused either, apart from a couple of moronic football fans shouting things from the crowd. But I realise that’s absolutely nothing like the full picture, and seeing players take the knee every week reminds me of that, and the fact that there’s still a lot of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Why do you have a problem recognizing you might be in a position of privilege? Again why shouldn't that be considered - its a kind of mental 'stop and search' black people have had that for decades! I’m privileged in that I was born into the West, UK, in arguably the best time to be alive in human history. My race and gender has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor is it a stick in which people should feel free to beat me with. Like I said earlier, we’re all individuals and making ignorant sweeping statements on someone’s character based on their immovable characteristics is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Just now, Red_Dawn said: Literally straight from the UKBLM fundraiser ”abolishment of the police”, “dismantle capitalism”, “redistribute wealth” https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund Yeah im not supporting that. Do you genuinely think that what happened yesterday had anything to do with the debatable political motivations of the BLM organisation? Do you think two thousand Millwall fans were booing the players kneeling on the pitch because they were looking to defend capitalism, socio-economics and the structure of the police service? I know I'm probably coming off as sounding condescending here but I'm not trying to be. I think there should be healthy debates about the BLM organisation and the effectiveness of the kneeling before games, as I think you do. But let's not kid ourselves that what happened yesterday was anything other than the mass booing of an anti-racist gesture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Like I said earlier, we’re all individuals and making ignorant sweeping statements on someone’s character based on their immovable characteristics is wrong. Sweeping statements like 'racism exists in the UK'? Racism is bad? Your comment was all about you - how about considering how others might feel? Try reading the stuff from the Derby players on our website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Ram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 The whole situation over the last few months had given us the chance to discuss these issues with our kids and that has hopefully helped them in their futures. Yesterday at the match and the aftermath has helped even more. Being clear to them that we in no way endorse the organisation that is Black Lives Matter, however the statement ‘Black Lives Matter’ and sentiment people feel to take the knee is a vitally important one to understand and share with them. Taking the knee as the players are doing is raising awareness to the issue at hand and hopefully leading to some change, individually or collectively. If it raises awareness and makes at least one person think and change then it is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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