Why Derby County Players Take The Knee

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Don't ignore it. Don't sigh. Don't say 'but'.

Just please, please, please read this article that the club recently released, explaining why we take the knee:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/12/why-we-continue-to-take-the-knee

If you can read about the personal experiences of Davies, Rosenior and Holmes, and still maintain that there isn't a problem, then you are part of the problem. 

Please listen to these men, who have had experiences that the vast majority of us are so fortunate to never have had to deal with. And if you have to read one quote, read the one below. It's so easy for us to sit back and pretend it doesn't happen.

Quote

For Rosenior, there is one saying that he lives by: “you don’t know what you don’t know”.

“For example if you take race as the issue – if I am a White person living in a predominantly White area I don’t come into contact with many Black people or people from different Ethnic backgrounds, then how do I know there is a problem,” the 36-year-old said. “I don’t think people who say things like ‘all lives matter’ are necessarily racist, they just don’t see that there is a problem because they haven’t experienced those things.

“In a perfect world, the best thing to move things forward would be for people to say ‘this group of people say there is a real problem’ instead of saying you don’t agree, you say ‘I don’t understand why, I need to find out why they think there is a problem and understand that’. If you do that then you can bring it from a place of unconscious to conscious. Still there is a large percentage of people all over the world where it is still in the unconscious section. That isn’t their fault, you don’t know what you don’t know.”

I'm quite proud that this forum has, on the whole, appeared very reasonable over the last 24 hours. You only need to look at the Millwall forum, or the Derby fan groups on Facebook, to see that reasonableness is not the norm.

[Parsnip]

I'd say this thread is 50% about raising awareness and understanding of the movement and 50% about @DarkFruitsRam7trying to claw back all those likes he lost when last night's Racism thread got deleted.

Come on everyone chip in with a like for the poor sod.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

I'd say this thread is 50% about raising awareness and understanding of the movement and 50% about @DarkFruitsRam7trying to claw back all those likes he lost when last night's Racism thread got deleted.

Come on everyone chip in with a like for the poor sod.

50/50 is being generous. I was in with the Millwall lads yesterday. Cracking atmosphere.

[Rambalin]

I am with Les Ferdinand at QPR on this and agree it needs to stop not because I disagree with the reasoning for it but because it has lost its impact. 

Do not stop it yet because the boo boys will think it is because of them but Jan 1st would be a good time to finish it. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54237179

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Just now, Rambalin said:

I am with Les Ferdinand at QPR on this and agree it needs to stop not because I disagree with the reasoning for it but because it has lost its impact. 

Do not stop it yet because the boo boys will think it is because of them but Jan 1st would be a good time to finish it. 

That's not an unreasonable point of view.

But I don't necessarily think this thread should be used to discuss whether or not we should take the knee. I see it as more of a PSA as to the reasons behind it, and why booing it is incredibly offensive.

[sage]

6 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

I am with Les Ferdinand at QPR on this and agree it needs to stop not because I disagree with the reasoning for it but because it has lost its impact. 

Do not stop it yet because the boo boys will think it is because of them but Jan 1st would be a good time to finish it. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54237179

I do think that when this recent controversy slows down, an end date should be given, i'd be happy with the end of the year or the end of the season, so everyone is clear that booing won't stop the campaign. After the recent booing I'd be inclined to keep going to the end of the season, but either way it should be announced as far in advance as possible so there isn't even a hint that these Racist Morons have won in any way. 

[Srg]

I am completely dumbfounded with Millwall fans. I, of course, know their history as a group. However, it’s still mind-boggling to me the overwhelming majority are so outwardly racist and don’t mind showing it. 

You expect to have a few racists, a few closeted racists, some just who are ignorant... as well as the opposite, such as the hyper-woke. Yet, their fan base is so overwhelmingly, overtly racist it’s crazy.

We can go on all day about what is and what isn’t considered racism, or whether or not BLM is a political movement (irrelevant when football’s slogan is now just “no room for racism” anyway). There’s a clear divide in generations and experiences that feed into all of this. All I would ever ask if people aren’t ignorant. Do your research from the right sources, listen to those that are directly effected and if you’ve got nothing constructive... just shut up. 

As for how long taking the knee should be happening. I don’t know. It’s a difficult one. The fight isn’t remotely over, and why should you stop raising awareness to avoid it being booed by racists? I don’t know the answer. 

[rammieib]

I think as fans come back it’s worth continuing for the time being - because it brings the topic back into discussion.

No doubt there is a problem and for a lot of people it’s a subtle problem which you may not even know you’re doing.

Some people may never be educated and/or just point blank refuse to but others may well learn.

I was in the camp of “what does this bring” but I’ve actually changed a bit on what I saw/heard yesterday. 

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I think as fans come back it’s worth continuing for the time being - because it brings the topic back into discussion.

No doubt there is a problem and for a lot of people it’s a subtle problem which you may not even know you’re doing.

Some people may never be educated and/or just point blank refuse to but others may well learn.

I was in the camp of “what does this bring” but I’ve actually changed a bit on what I saw/heard yesterday. 

And as corny as it is, if it’s made you, as just one person, alter their views and increase their understanding then it has achieved something. 

[rammieib]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

And as corny as it is, if it’s made you, as just one person, alter their views and increase their understanding then it has achieved something. 

Agree - but let me give you an example on the subtle side of things.

Have I ever declined to interview someone for a job when I’ve seen their name on a CV? Yes I’m fairly sure I have.

Why? Probably because of misconceived opinions, or maybe because I know they will be different to what my interests are and thus may not enjoy working with them as much and so on. I’m wrong to do this. I shouldn’t make any judgement on a name. 

I recognise this for sure. So that’s definitely helped.

Its not a black thing - it’s a culture thing. I work in Leicester, half our workforce are Indian, not an issue. I referee basketball, quite a few black players, not an issue and so on.

Maybe myself explaining this and the benefit it’s given me will help others? It’s only a small subtle point but maybe it’s something that can help others as well?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Just now, rammieib said:

Agree - but let me give you an example on the subtle side of things.

Have I ever declined to interview someone for a job when I’ve seen their name on a CV? Yes I’m fairly sure I have.

Why? Probably because of misconceived opinions, or maybe because I know they will be different to what my interests are and thus may not enjoy working with them as much and so on. I’m wrong to do this. I shouldn’t make any judgement on a name. 

I recognise this for sure. So that’s definitely helped.

Its not a black thing - it’s a culture thing. I work in Leicester, half our workforce are Indian, not an issue. I referee basketball, quite a few black players, not an issue and so on.

Maybe myself explaining this and the benefit it’s given me will help others? It’s only a small subtle point but maybe it’s something that can help others as well?

That’s exactly the sort of ‘uncomfortable conversation’ Duane was talking about.

Good on you.

[oldtimeram]

I am not racist, but I do not think taking the knee should continue.  After all, we only remember our fallen from all wars once a year on Armistice Day.

I just think the whole thing has turned political.

OK I'll get my tin hat now, ready for the fallout. 

[Srg]

1 minute ago, oldtimeram said:

I am not racist, but I do not think taking the knee should continue.  After all, we only remember our fallen from all wars once a year on Armistice Day.

I just think the whole thing has turned political.

OK I'll get my tin hat now, ready for the fallout. 

It hasn’t turned political. The ones trying to twist the narrative into it being political are the racists. Don’t let that narrative continue. It’s thinly veiled at best  

The knee is about highlighting a lifetime of systematic racism and police brutality. In football, the slogan is simply “no room for racism”. It’s not Black Lives Matter - and let’s not confuse the statement that Black Lives Matter with the organisation. They are different. 

[TomTom92]

I believe even players of mixed race have come out and said the knee is now just for show. Its a tough situation because racism is still very much engrained in to this nation. However I'm not sure the knee is particularly achieving much now, I for one don't bat a eye lid at it anymore. After Milwall's antics yesterday I'd be inclined to give it this season but that's because I'm petty and love winding people up especially the ignorant. 

I think if the FA and others within the game are serious about tackling racism they'd do more constructive things such as implementing the Rooney rule. 

The saddest thing for me yesterday is that the booing was obviously co-ordinated and one of the first things the fans decided to do after months away from the game. Its also pretty sad seeing Milwall fans hind being politics to justify their actions. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

I do think that when this recent controversy slows down, an end date should be given, i'd be happy with the end of the year or the end of the season, so everyone is clear that booing won't stop the campaign. After the recent booing I'd be inclined to keep going to the end of the season, but either way it should be announced as far in advance as possible so there isn't even a hint that these Racist Morons have won in any way. 

Yes, I think I agree with this. I thought it was great and appropreate when teams started. An agreement that it's going to end as a part of the pre-match routine at the end of the season would be fine for me as long as it's agreed with everyone and it can move to individual choice.

Football is quite bad at tokenism and virtue signalling - oh we have rainbow laces every year, but how long has it been since the tragic death of justin Fashanu and not one single professional footballer has felt able to come out? The hard work on these issues never stops, is unglamourous, tedious, often unappreciated but has to go on. Whilst sportsmen or other people in positions of influence and power can make a difference, and it's important that they do, it's all of us to try to make the world little bit better whilst we're here.

 

 

[rynny]

 

 

[Chester40]

35 minutes ago, rammieib said:

 

Have I ever declined to interview someone for a job when I’ve seen their name on a CV? Yes I’m fairly sure I have.

Why? Probably because of misconceived opinions, or maybe because I know they will be different to what my interests are and thus may not enjoy working with them as much and so on. I’m wrong to do this. I shouldn’t make any judgement on a name. 

I recognise this for sure. So that’s definitely helped.

Its not a black thing - it’s a culture thing. I work in Leicester, half our workforce are Indian, not an issue. I referee basketball, quite a few black players, not an issue and so on.

Maybe myself explaining this and the benefit it’s given me will help others? It’s only a small subtle point but maybe it’s something that can help others as well?

Mel...so finally you have admitted it! Now tell us what Stuart Pearce ever did to you? 

[Sparkle]

There does come a point when it needs to stop and we move on 

keep all politics and divisive issues out of sport and let us all enjoy sport rather than being turned off it.  

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

There does come a point when it needs to stop and we move on 

keep all politics and divisive issues out of sport and let us all enjoy sport rather than being turned off it.  

It's not, and never has been, about politics.

[MuespachRam]

3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It's not, and never has been, about politics.

And any of those fans yesterday hiding behind that are kidding no one. They are racist. End of.