Why Derby County Players Take The Knee

[Uptherams]

Some of you come across as if you never talk to people who aren't white. People can speak for themselves. Because the people that bring up this stuff with me have had enough of others being offended on their behalf or people calling them BAME. The one's who are most annoyed are those who left nations where they faced real adversity and discrimination. They can't speak anymore highly of the UK. 

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Carry on when the crowds come back in order to out the knuckle-dragging racists and their apologists.

[cstand]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Don't ignore it. Don't sigh. Don't say 'but'.

Just please, please, please read this article that the club recently released, explaining why we take the knee:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/12/why-we-continue-to-take-the-knee

If you can read about the personal experiences of Davies, Rosenior and Holmes, and still maintain that there isn't a problem, then you are part of the problem. 

Please listen to these men, who have had experiences that the vast majority of us are so fortunate to never have had to deal with. And if you have to read one quote, read the one below. It's so easy for us to sit back and pretend it doesn't happen.

I'm quite proud that this forum has, on the whole, appeared very reasonable over the last 24 hours. You only need to look at the Millwall forum, or the Derby fan groups on Facebook, to see that reasonableness is not the norm.

If you talk about it, it exists. It’s not like it exists and we refuse to talk about it, making it a bigger issue than it needs to be is the problem here.

Morgan Freeman

[nottingram]

7 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It's not, and never has been, about politics.

Let me get this right - are you saying all these footballers earning tens of thousands of pounds per week aren’t Marxists? 

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

There does come a point when it needs to stop and we move on 

keep all politics and divisive issues out of sport and let us all enjoy sport rather than being turned off it.  

Racism is indeed divisive. Them and us! It should be altogether but it's not - why should it stop being pointed out? Does it make you uncomfortable or just bored cos it's nowt to do with you?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

10 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

People can speak for themselves.

It's almost like I attached an article in which three black men speak about their experiences with racism in this country.

[Sparkle]

18 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It's not, and never has been, about politics.

I didn’t really say that did I ?

[Leeds Ram]

I've put this on another thread but I do think taking the knee has become for many much closer to virtue signalling than anything else. I understood it as a moment of solidarity during the wave of protests and it was useful for that but I think anyone claiming it is or has made any real difference in October and November are kidding themselves. Having said that, it was beyond grim to hear the Millwall fans react they did, it was deeply inappropriate and offensive.

There is an issue with racism and a small section of football fans sadly. I still remember during our 10 man victory at forest- a drunken oaf was shouting racial slurs at Wes Morgan and I was the only one who asked him to stop. I was only 17 at the time, quite small and relatively slight. This guy was 35-40, tall and stocky. He was very drunk and aggressive when i said it made me feel uncomfortable so could he not use that language. It amazed me then and now that i was seen as the problem by people in the vicinity and felt so sorry for the one non-white person near us who just gave me a quick thumbs up at halftime. Clearly football needs to do more to root the small minority out who make the rest of us look like Neanderthals.  

I do think on broader questions of representation, discrimination etc. that's much trickier and requires an honest, open discussion with tolerance for a wide range of viewpoints. Certainly, at times I've felt in my own position during discussions with an anti-racism group I attend that merely pointing out issues with what they are proposing to change at the university is enough to find myself ostracised by some. 

[Red_Dawn]

You can try and twist the narrative, but the taking of the knee is intrinsically linked with BLM the group and movement, which undoubtedly is divisive, and in many ways racist itself. 

Defund/abolish the police, destroy capitalism, get rid of the nuclear family? Absolutely no chance I'll ever pander to that, although not sure whether I'd boo or not. 

SkySports and EFL have tried to rebrand the gesture as being associated with a general anti-racism message, but its associated with far more than that. 

And as many have pointed out, its totally lost its meaning. Someone on our forum suggested, would anyone object to them booing the next minutes silence for remembrance Sunday. 

Even as an ex soldier, if it was forced upon us before every single match, I might join in!

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Racism is indeed divisive. Them and us! It should be altogether but it's not - why should it stop being pointed out? Does it make you uncomfortable or just bored cos it's nowt to do with you?

Your right it is divisive, it’s also such a hard subject to talk about and express stuff easily ,,, I see colour now in a way I didn’t before this year and have  felt like it’s a backward step but I’m also trying to get my head around the idea that maybe it’s a backward step needed to move further forward ,

[DarkFruitsRam7]

9 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

You can try and twist the narrative, but the taking of the knee is intrinsically linked with BLM the group and movement, which undoubtedly is divisive, and in many ways racist itself. 

Defund/abolish the police, destroy capitalism, get rid of the nuclear family? Absolutely no chance I'll ever pander to that, although not sure whether I'd boo or not. 

Please point to any quote in the article where one of the players mentions abolishing the police, capitalism or the nuclear family.

You're choosing the interpretation of the radical left and the angry Daily Mail commenters, who, for once, are in agreement. The sane people see it as a gesture of solidarity with black people in recognition of the issues they face.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Archied said:

I see colour now in a way I didn’t before this year and have  felt like it’s a backward step but I’m also trying to get my head around the idea that maybe it’s a backward step needed to move further forward ,

Not being black I don't really appreciate that maybe saying we should 'all be the same' isn't right either. It's a very difficult subject to deal with so that all involved feel that it's been done well. Some people will never agree. But anyone who suggests that racism doesn't exist in the UK is totally wrong. So if it exists it has to be dealt with and if you are affected by it how long should you have to wait to feel something was being done that made things better?

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

I am not racist, but I do not think taking the knee should continue.  After all, we only remember our fallen from all wars once a year on Armistice Day.

I just think the whole thing has turned political.

OK I'll get my tin hat now, ready for the fallout. 

You could say wearing the poppy is political 

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Please point to any quote in the article where one of the players mentions abolishing the police, capitalism or the nuclear family.

You're choosing the interpretation of the radical left and the angry Daily Mail commenters, who, for once, are in agreement. The sane people see it as a gesture of solidarity with black people in recognition of the issues they face.

Exactly. I see a lot about the defunding police stuff without any realisation that it is an American notion. Whereby police have more power and funds are pushed into police departments disproportionate to the communities. The funds for helping those who desperately need it, to avoid crime to begin with in a lot of cases, and improve millions of lives are being directed to oft-corrupt police organisations that are being run like the mob. 

[Nuwtfly]

While I largely agree with much of what Les Ferdinand had to say not too long ago, I also think that choosing to boo a symbolic anti-racist gesture is about as shameful as it gets. 

I can't believe that people are really believing the idea that what happened yesterday had anything to do with the politics of the BLM organisation. Not a chance.

Oh, and I wonder how many of those fans that were booing yesterday were also up-in-arms last year when Bulgarian supporters were making themselves heard when our national teams met? 

[Red_Dawn]

15 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Please point to any quote in the article where one of the players mentions abolishing the police, capitalism or the nuclear family.

You're choosing the interpretation of the radical left and the angry Daily Mail commenters, who, for once, are in agreement. The sane people see it as a gesture of solidarity with black people in recognition of the issues they face.

They don't need to. The minute SkySports and every other provider decided to splash BLM all over their coverage (including forcing their presenters to wear the branding of that group), their objectives would be forever be tied to the gesture for me, and many others it seems.

They could have just stood with their 'Lets Kick it Out' campaign, but that wasn't enough. We had to get on our hands and knees at the alter of social justice before every group, or otherwise be branded a racist (and banned for life as many commentators suggested yesterday). 

Its divisive, serves no real purpose, and likely actually caused race relations to go backwards.

Get it out of the beautiful game please. 

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

While I largely agree with much of what Les Ferdinand had to say not too long ago, I also think that choosing to boo a symbolic anti-racist gesture is about as shameful as it gets. 

I can't believe that people are really believing the idea that what happened yesterday had anything to do with the politics of the BLM organisation. Not a chance.

Oh, and I wonder how many of those fans that were booing yesterday were also up-in-arms last year when Bulgarian supporters were making themselves heard when our national teams met? 

I think that’s the long and short of it. 

There’s larger debates to be had here, and it’s wonderful to see a couple of posters here admit how their own views have evolved recently. 

However, booing it is something else entirely. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

Its divisive, serves no real purpose, and likely actually caused race relations to go backwards.

Amongst who has it caused race relations to go backwards? White racists?

[Red_Dawn]

10 minutes ago, Srg said:

Exactly. I see a lot about the defunding police stuff without any realisation that it is an American notion. 

Except abolishing the police was also mentioned on the UK BLM website. 

They also expressed support for BDS, which calls for boycotting Israeli goods. 

I'm not supporting that. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

20 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

They don't need to. The minute SkySports and every other provider decided to splash BLM all over their coverage (including forcing their presenters to wear the branding of that group), their objectives would be forever be tied to the this gesturing. 

They could have just stood with their 'Lets Kick it Out' campaign, but that wasn't enough. We had to get on our hands and knees at the alter of social justice before every group, or otherwise be branded a racist (and banned for life as many commentators suggested yesterday). 

Its divisive, serves no real purpose, and likely actually caused race relations to go backwards.

Get it out of the beautiful game please. 

Please tell me how you've been made to feel like you've 'had to get on your hands and knees at the alter of social justice'.

All I see is an agreement between professional footballers, not you, to perform a gesture in recognition of the issues black people face in the society.

Have they instructed fans to do it? No.

Have they said anyone who doesn't agree with it is a racist? No.

So stop making out like you're enduring real hardship, when all you're being made to do is twiddle your thumbs in front of your laptop screen for five seconds at the start of each game.