G STAR RAM Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mickleoverram said: I saw good transitions with Giles Barnes, Tom Huddlestone and Will Hughes, what does that prove?? What has he done?? Did he drive them to the ground perhaps, or maybe he gave them a number to phone if they wanted a mate?? Ok so what is his role then please? I just assumed his job would be related to his remit when he was appointed. I was obviously wrong. Can you please advise what his day to day duties are please so I can possibly revise my opinion on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Disappointed for Phil and his team this didn’t work out. They have done a fantastic job joining up the dots within the club to establish a pathway from academy to the first team. I hope the next manager continues to look to develop our youth to bring them through. The decision for him to move on has also been done in a dignified manner. Clearly the deal must be close now, as it would seem that the new owner has made it clear he wants his own manager to take us forward. Sacking Phil would have been costly, and in my view painful for all concerned. That he can leave on his own, good terms with Mel lessens some of my disappointment. I wish him, Chris and Twain the very best for the future. Easy to put academy players in but points mean prizes. If the players suddenly have twice as much energy now then that will be instructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 43 minutes ago, Rolleston said: Dosn't matter how much money he had, he was out of work, why was he given a four year deal? Does it matter now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rampage said: Seriously. Mel playing his cards very well but I remain somewhat mystified. Seriously, Mel hasn’t played his cards very well. He has been sitting at the table and lobbed in around £150m on increasingly dodgy hands. When he ran out of cash he approached a couple of other ‘players’ who lent him another £15 to £30m to buy him some time so he could try to get some of his money back. Those ‘players’ though wanted some security for their loans so Mel had no option but to sign over some property. Those players probably put a time limit on his loan, otherwise he might find himself with the card table pushed up his arse. Mel has now found someone to buy the property, and some other assets, and the amount is in the region of £60m. He will walk away from the table, but I doubt he will play cards again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I will believe the sale when it is signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickleoverram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Ok so what is his role then please? I just assumed his job would be related to his remit when he was appointed. I was obviously wrong. Can you please advise what his day to day duties are please so I can possibly revise my opinion on him. I don’t know what his daily duties are and I don’t care as it’s not me trying to persuade people they are wrong, if YOU think he is a world class coach bully for you, if you think he is average then marvellous. Maybe I am wrong but then maybe YOU are, I think he is an awful coach and until someone proves to me he is a good one I will stick to my opinion for the reasons I have outlined especially as even you have admitted you don’t know what he does. When someone can prove he is a great coach I will be the first to hold my hands up and say I was wrong, however until then I hope he is next out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Seriously, Mel hasn’t played his cards very well. He has been sitting at the table and lobbed in around £150m on increasingly dodgy hands. When he ran out of cash he approached a couple of other ‘players’ who lent him another £15 to £30m to buy him some time so he could try to get some of his money back. Those ‘players’ though wanted some security for their loans so Mel had no option but to sign over some property. Those players probably put a time limit on his loan, otherwise he might find himself with the card table pushed up his arse. Mel has now found someone to buy the property, and some other assets, and the amount is in the region of £60m. He will walk away from the table, but I doubt he will play cards again. Only part of what has happened is now clear. We will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Whilst it’s not nice for a decent human to lose his job, it’s not right to keep banging on about him being dealt a bad hand, in comparison to the managers since Jim Smith, he really hasn’t been dealt that bad of a hand. Joiners-gate cost him Richard Keogh and a bit of club embarrassment, nothing else. This is basically an injury and every manager in the game has lost players through injury. Is Klopp dealing with a bad hand cos VVD is injured? Does he deserve excessive sympathy and excuses?? Nope! The long and short of it is what managers do with players ON the pitch, and Cocu sadly proved incapable. in terms of budgets, having to sell players, having no money etc, I’m not buying it. Money spent on just Bielik and Jozwiak rubbishes that excuse. Cocu has had standard managerial issues to deal with, injuries and budget restrictions, name a manager that hasn’t. Good points. I believe we should have kept Cocu not because of any notions of him having been dealt a bad hand, my reasoning is down to him needing a bit longer to imbed his philosophy in the players. The older players seemed to be struggling to take it on board, maybe thats why he gave more minutes to teenagers than any other manager in England. I don't feel sorry for Phil, I feel sorry for us, for Derby County. I believe it would have clicked, maybe slowly at first, but then we'd be on a Mac 1 free for all for the next few years.? I suppose there is no chance nowadays of the slow build, us and owners are too impatient, too focused on short termism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: Can't help but feel we've panicked again.....one season and 11 games into a 4 year contract. At some point, the players would have started believing, the slow, steady building and integration of the academy kids into he team would have clicked imo. We'll never know now. At the end of the day I'm a Derby fan so will get behind whoever is in charge, but I really feel we've bottled the chance of creating a long lasting dynasty of success under a highly intelligent football man and a genuine guy as well. Agree with the sentiment but today's football industry is unforgiving and something needed to change. Many of the players have really under performed though and it's a shame Cocu has to take full responsibility for everything when players are making constant mistakes, losing battles and not fighting hard enough. The man is dignified and it's a shame it's not worked out. Lack of pre season, Car crash, loss of captain, embargo, lots of key injuries, striker situation, COVID and no fans in the stadium (I am sure we would be higher up if no COVID) have all ultimately caused us to be where we are now. How much he has had a say in new signings, I am not sure, but let's appreciate our best performers so far this season have been new signings under his watch- Marshall, Byrne and Joswiak (and Buchanan's introduction as a first teamer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Rampage said: Only part of what has happened is now clear. We will see Mel perhaps has half a billion. Borrowing money at very low interest may have been the obvious option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mickleoverram said: I don’t know what his daily duties are and I don’t care as it’s not me trying to persuade people they are wrong, if YOU think he is a world class coach bully for you, if you think he is average then marvellous. Maybe I am wrong but then maybe YOU are, I think he is an awful coach and until someone proves to me he is a good one I will stick to my opinion for the reasons I have outlined especially as even you have admitted you don’t know what he does. When someone can prove he is a great coach I will be the first to hold my hands up and say I was wrong, however until then I hope he is next out the door. No, I just told you what his remit was when he was appointed. If you think he has failed with that then that is fine. It appears though you have just made up what his duties are, not told me what they are and concluded that he has failed in them and should be dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickleoverram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No, I just told you what his remit was when he was appointed. If you think he has failed with that then that is fine. It appears though you have just made up what his duties are, not told me what they are and concluded that he has failed in them and should be dismissed. I told you I didn’t know what his duties were, sorry I didn’t realise you were in his appointment interviews. I did say that just because you saw good transitions with Buchanan etc, means nothing as I saw good transitions when he wasn’t at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mickleoverram said: I told you I didn’t know what his duties were, sorry I didn’t realise you were in his appointment interviews. I did say that just because you saw good transitions with Buchanan etc, means nothing as I saw good transitions when he wasn’t at Derby. I wasnt in his interview but I recently checked back on the Dcfc website to see what they said about him when he was appointed. It means nothing if he is doing with what he was tasked with doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 24 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Good points. I believe we should have kept Cocu not because of any notions of him having been dealt a bad hand, my reasoning is down to him needing a bit longer to imbed his philosophy in the players. The older players seemed to be struggling to take it on board, maybe thats why he gave more minutes to teenagers than any other manager in England. I don't feel sorry for Phil, I feel sorry for us, for Derby County. I believe it would have clicked, maybe slowly at first, but then we'd be on a Mac 1 free for all for the next few years.? I suppose there is no chance nowadays of the slow build, us and owners are too impatient, too focused on short termism. If we hadn't of been in the position we were at the end,with the performances we had produced,then I could probably see where you are coming from here..... certainly if we had been climbing out with it all slowly coming together then it might have been different. To be honest though,to an owner it must be pretty difficult to sit in that position for very long as the games click by with the results and performances worsening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Bickering breaking out as usual. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickleoverram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, G STAR RAM said: I wasnt in his interview but I recently checked back on the Dcfc website to see what they said about him when he was appointed. It means nothing if he is doing with what he was tasked with doing? IF, I don’t know and as you have admitted, neither do you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Good points. I believe we should have kept Cocu not because of any notions of him having been dealt a bad hand, my reasoning is down to him needing a bit longer to imbed his philosophy in the players. The older players seemed to be struggling to take it on board, maybe thats why he gave more minutes to teenagers than any other manager in England. I don't feel sorry for Phil, I feel sorry for us, for Derby County. I believe it would have clicked, maybe slowly at first, but then we'd be on a Mac 1 free for all for the next few years.? I suppose there is no chance nowadays of the slow build, us and owners are too impatient, too focused on short termism. I feel sorry for us Derby County. I didn't feel sorry for Stoke City either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said: I feel sorry for us Derby County. I didn't feel sorry for Stoke City either! The best game of Cocus tenure...shame it didn't go on from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Honestly believe the guy is a good manager, just never got the right breaks and came to grasp the momentum of the championship. Dispute our current position I hold Phil and his team in high regard and wish them well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaftesbury st Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Donnyram said: Harsh. Be interesting to understand your view when he was appointed - if you predicted the outcome then hats off to you as I don't recall there were many Well you will have to take my word for it but I did not think it was the right move for us, as time went by I felt even stronger about it. Friends will vouch for my opinions and all disagreed. Why would anyone think it was the right move when you looked at his last disastrous stint in Turkey?. I think it’s important to say that I’m never happy a manager is sacked because ultimately it means my club isn’t doing well and that’s what we all want. If he had succeeded I would have got behind him. Equally I never wanted Lampard because there was only ever going to be certain outcomes. He flops as a novice or does well and gets stolen by a bigger club, never thought it would be Chelsea so soon but expected a London return. Wouldnt swap that season for anything though but his loss ultimately stunted our development hence why I say Mel has to shoulder some responsibility for where we are now. Crucially we now need the right appointment, again I don’t think a novice is what we require but I think our squad is talented and it’s just missing a few pieces and motivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.