How do you get out of a spiral like this?

[May Contain Nuts]

48 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

Got to say I was impressed with what he did at Wigan last season.

Had them in the relegation zone until the points deduction was announced, which actually seemed to spur them on.

You've got to ask why that was.

[ramsbottom]

Step 1 - Find a manager who isn’t as cerebral, and is a motivator.

Step 2 - Tell Rooney & Red32 to stick their deal up their arses. The experiment hasn’t worked, as it’s clear his constant presence in the side, regardless of form is annoying the rest of the team

[Russell Ram]

29 minutes ago, rustylee said:

I keep thinking back to when Sheffield Wednesday were given the 12 points deduction and we were still worried that we may get the same the more positive posters on here were telling us that even starting on -12 we wouldn’t be in a relegation scrap I think even the happiest of clappers must be getting a bit worried now even without the points deduction.

I think we told FFP we would be signing CKR and sticking with Cocu so they probably said fair enough. 

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

You have to have half succeeded to get a Mac type recall,Cocu has been poo throughout so it's a no on that front.

Hi Kash, half succeeded?  Forgive me if I’m not overwhelmed ?

Awful ain’t it

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Step 1 - Find a manager who isn’t as cerebral, and is a motivator.

Step 2 - Tell Rooney & Red32 to stick their deal up their arses. The experiment hasn’t worked, as it’s clear his constant presence in the side, regardless of form is annoying the rest of the team

With a proper manager Rooney will be an asset I hope.  

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Hi Kash, half succeeded?  Forgive me if I’m not overwhelmed ?

Awful ain’t it

It all is

[Mucker1884]

18 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

we might get Wilder in a couple of weeks

 

Not sure we can get much wilder.  Most of us seem pretty livid as it is!

 

Oh... Hang on...

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Derbados said:

It’s evident there is a toxic atmosphere in and around the club, the players body language absolutely screams it. 

Honestly, I think we need to get rid of Rooney, it’s obvious he’s contractually obliged to play every game unless injured, and that must not sit well with the majority of the squad who get taken out the team so he can waddle around the pitch getting completely bypassed by the opposition. 

i genuinely think we need a Pulis / Cook / Allardyce style appointment to get us out of this mess and keep us in this division. It won’t be pretty or inspiring, but it’ll work, you can forget any notion of playoffs / promotion this season, this is now about survival, no doubt about it. 
 

So,

1.Get rid of Cocu and his coaching staff tonight,

2. Bring in a championship specialist that will very rapidly start getting results ASAP so they can work with the players over the international break

3. Get this bloody takeover done and dusted either way so there are no more distractions 

4. conduct a full review and audit of this football club and create a sustainable long term identity 

Think u need a magic wand or a genie in a bottle With those requests lol 

[G-Ram]

We are in big trouble. We're not 'too good' to go down. I remember thinking Sunderland looked like they had a good enough squad to stay up & didn't. Boro last season were looking done for until warnock came in & now they are doing ok at the right end of the table. 

Only way out of it is sacking the manager and staff. Getting in a man motivator give the players confidence & get back to basics just passing, moving closing down etc would help. 

I know people will say players are paid to play football but i think there is a lot to be said for making training fun, everyone enjoying football & having buy in from the players. While lampard wasn't the best tactically he got on by creating a bit of togetherness & most of the lads looked like they enjoyed playing for him. Just get them all out & a new coaching team in with a bit of positivity. Our players are all good players and we are massively underachieving. 

These results & performances are worse than our premier league banter season. At least back then players gave 100% but just weren't up to it. We have some of the best talent in the division in our squad & are bottom of the league. Its a shambles 

 

[brady1993]

You sack the manager because thats all you can do. 

You bring in someone who can inject some belief and confidence into the side. You do it quick so they can shake the funk out of the squad during the international break.

Then you cross your fingers and hope it's enough. 

[strawhillram]

Complete takeover. Bring in at least 5 or 6 loanees  from Man City. Hope don’t have to fed them our decent youngsters 

[TuffLuff]

It fully depends what you consider the spiral to be, the reality is that seven been spiralling on and off for a long time. There’s been a few attempts at short term fixes, the Lampard season for example, but we weren’t really good enough to step up to the next level it was just a nice distraction. We thought last season was the tough season, as we were in with a play off shout and finished...10th. That wasn’t our season of struggle, it was a prelude into what’s happening right now, the writing was on the wall in January that the financial situation was not good then. That reality has finally been realised, we had to sell to buy and aside Jozwiak our signings have been essentially been scraping the barrel (not that Byrne and Marshall are poor signings, but it’s more that we have had to go for cheap signings from a relegated club). We have a lot of experienced players who are rated by fans, but they are increasingly being found out by a league that is now relying on fast, youthful players who work hard. Some of our players are technically better but are being outfought week in, week out and effectively made themselves valueless. We couldn’t afford to keep our best experienced players who could battle, ie Bradley Johnson and Chris Martin because we couldn’t afford them. So essentially we have what we have. 

So how do we get out of the spiral? We will probably have to grin and bear it this season. I think the worse thing we can do is get rid of Cocu, because that just carries on the spiral where a new manager needs three transfer windows and we are back at square one. Or could upset the apple cart too much and we end up in free fall like so many other clubs.

 But I do think Cocu has to start to have faith in his own project. To start with, build around the players he’s brought in (Marshall, Te Wierik, Jozwiak and Bielik) and start to reward the youngsters who haven’t let him down. The thing is with Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes, Forsyth, Wisdom, Davies etc is that they are all good footballers but we’ve all seen the ‘play well for a game or two and then fade in averageness enough times now. In my opinion they get with the programme or need to look to be moved on. It’s maybe harsh but Cocu needs to stand up for what his project is.

I think as fans we need to accept this, I also think it’s a bit on radio Derby/conway to not overly add to the pressure. Not that I think they are being bad in anyway but more that I think they undermine Cocu a little bit with comments that are very much like ‘well I know a lot better and I would do this’. It’s not that criticism is wrong but I think it gives fans who listen too a contrary opinion to Cocu that may not be entirely accurate. For example Steele can hint a lot at what him and Mclaren would do, then I see the same opinion is posted on this forum, but it’s forgetting that championship football is very different than it was then.

You may also believe that we are also just on another part of the spiral.

[Yani P]

Cocu is a goner no way he can be allowed to continue..his so called project is an abject failure..I can't see any reason why new owners would keep him. 

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

It fully depends what you consider the spiral to be, the reality is that seven been spiralling on and off for a long time. There’s been a few attempts at short term fixes, the Lampard season for example, but we weren’t really good enough to step up to the next level it was just a nice distraction. We thought last season was the tough season, as we were in with a play off shout and finished...10th. That wasn’t our season of struggle, it was a prelude into what’s happening right now, the writing was on the wall in January that the financial situation was not good then. That reality has finally been realised, we had to sell to buy and aside Jozwiak our signings have been essentially been scraping the barrel (not that Byrne and Marshall are poor signings, but it’s more that we have had to go for cheap signings from a relegated club). We have a lot of experienced players who are rated by fans, but they are increasingly being found out by a league that is now relying on fast, youthful players who work hard. Some of our players are technically better but are being outfought week in, week out and effectively made themselves valueless. We couldn’t afford to keep our best experienced players who could battle, ie Bradley Johnson and Chris Martin because we couldn’t afford them. So essentially we have what we have. 

So how do we get out of the spiral? We will probably have to grin and bear it this season. I think the worse thing we can do is get rid of Cocu, because that just carries on the spiral where a new manager needs three transfer windows and we are back at square one. Or could upset the apple cart too much and we end up in free fall like so many other clubs.

 But I do think Cocu has to start to have faith in his own project. To start with, build around the players he’s brought in (Marshall, Te Wierik, Jozwiak and Bielik) and start to reward the youngsters who haven’t let him down. The thing is with Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes, Forsyth, Wisdom, Davies etc is that they are all good footballers but we’ve all seen the ‘play well for a game or two and then fade in averageness enough times now. In my opinion they get with the programme or need to look to be moved on. It’s maybe harsh but Cocu needs to stand up for what his project is.

I think as fans we need to accept this, I also think it’s a bit on radio Derby/conway to not overly add to the pressure. Not that I think they are being bad in anyway but more that I think they undermine Cocu a little bit with comments that are very much like ‘well I know a lot better and I would do this’. It’s not that criticism is wrong but I think it gives fans who listen too a contrary opinion to Cocu that may not be entirely accurate. For example Steele can hint a lot at what him and Mclaren would do, then I see the same opinion is posted on this forum, but it’s forgetting that championship football is very different than it was then.

You may also believe that we are also just on another part of the spiral.

Cocu does not have a clue whatsoever.  

[TuffLuff]

4 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Cocu does not have a clue whatsoever.  

Oh ok then ?

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

Had them in the relegation zone until the points deduction was announced,

Is that true. And if so it's even more impressive as our lot in the bottom 3 are just getting worse!

[24Charlie]

To answer the OPs question.

Scoring goals would get us out of this spiral.

Can Cocu be blamed for our team not scoring? 
Lawrence, Waghorn, Knight, Rooney and Sibley were all I the goals last season.

Our goals for column is abysmal. So bad that it defies logic. This is why we are were we are. I bet Cocu watches them bang them in in training and thinks off you go lads.

Even an average goals return would see us well clear of trouble.

All eyes turn to Cocu the poor sod. Unreasonably as a football manager because they can’t score, he has to take the rap.

 

[Spanish]

25 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

To answer the OPs question.

Scoring goals would get us out of this spiral.

Can Cocu be blamed for our team not scoring? 
Lawrence, Waghorn, Knight, Rooney and Sibley were all I the goals last season.

Our goals for column is abysmal. So bad that it defies logic. This is why we are were we are. I bet Cocu watches them bang them in in training and thinks off you go lads.

Even an average goals return would see us well clear of trouble.

All eyes turn to Cocu the poor sod. Unreasonably as a football manager because they can’t score, he has to take the rap.

 

He sets them up for possession football.  The forward through ball appears to be a sin

[Ken Tram]

Break the team up - go down to League 1 if necessary - build a cheap team using our excellent Academy players - and ride to the wave of momentum to the Premier League.

Our current team has been a play-off team for so long, that it can't be fixed with a little tinkering, or even a manager.

We don't really want to survive in this league. We want to get promoted. So, if we want to stop the spiral, we need to do it in a way that leads to the desired result.

I think we only keep long serving, and expensive players, who are consistently over-performing. And then use the remaining players with young Academy players.

Whether we stay up, or go down, I think that this may be the best way to stop the downward spiral in a way that is most likely to end up with promotion.

[Alph]

5 hours ago, Spanish said:

@Roymacwe agree on a lot but not on Mac 

4 words Derby 0 reading 3

Derby County conceded 23 goals in their final 13 Championship matches, in which their only wins came against relegated sides Wigan Athletic and Blackpool. The Rams earned just 12 points out of a possible 39 since beating Charlton Athletic in February.

Just to refresh the memory, great coach poor manager

Record number of points and goals in a season. The run in you speak of includes injuries to both Martin and Bent and all 3 defensive midfielders. 

And at the time people said Pearson would get this team promoted easy. Then when Pearson had us rock bottom and the lowest scorers in the UK who was it that came and took us up half the league.

You called him a failure. What's success? Midtable Premier League? Trying to get 40 points in a season and not being battered by Man City? Success and failure has to be given context 

You didn't dream of promotion before Mac. We never won more than we lost. 

Poor manager who won titles with Twente, his "disaster" at Wolfsburg is a myth. He handed Boro their only silverware? Took them into Europe. He set records here. Sure he's done bad jobs. So has Pep. Who hasn't?  

Nigel Pearson is a good manager yet Mac had to clean his poo up. Cocu is a good manager proven in Holland... 

Mac has done well by Derby. Thats just true. Thats not to say everyone should want him back. I don't myself. But he was good for Derby. Losing to Reading 3-0 still left us closer to promotion than Cocu, Clough and Pearson. 

The good coach rhetoric... he's a manager with mixed results like so many. But he has had more success at Twente, Boro and Derby than most real managers.