Mafiabob Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: it is a pointless debate because it isn't going to change anything but the issue for me is the inconsistency of the officials. In neither case can the linesmen judge whether the attacker who is offside (and both Waggy and their no.26 were offside), were interfering with the goalkeeper's vision and therefore that the goal should be disallowed. The angle they are looking from makes that a physical impossibility. Therefore their role is to either put the flag up in both cases because players close to the action in both situations were a) offside and b) close to the keeper and let the referee make the decision, or keep the flag down and let play go on. From the TV pictures the referee was in a good position in both cases and should have allowed both goals to stand. In the old days neither would have been allowed. And no to VAR, full stop and forever. Referee was unsighted with Waggy mate. I know there’s a still on here, but I’m positive he didn’t see Waggy in the way. On the VAR point, why not? That would have worked perfectly for both decisions tonight. It’s that or accept officials make mistakes. If you want something to blame, blame the win at all costs mentality. Lawernce should have been cautioned for diving I hastened to add as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Check out Jeff Hendricks goal v Forest @ the City Ground 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 54 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I'mm willing to bet that VAR wouldn't overrule that decision. Wrong, with VAR in operation, the lino wouldn't have flagged, they let play continue and let VAR check every goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Referee was unsighted with Waggy mate. I know there’s a still on here, but I’m positive he didn’t see Waggy in the way. On the VAR point, why not? That would have worked perfectly for both decisions tonight. It’s that or accept officials make mistakes. If you want something to blame, blame the win at all costs mentality. Lawernce should have been cautioned for diving I hastened to add as well I don't think the ref was unsighted on the Jozwiak goal from the pictures behind the goal. I think he would/should have seen Waggy not interfering with play and the goalkeeper's reactions - you can clearly see from the camera behind the goal that Samba had a clear view of Jozwiak's shot, dived to save it and couldn't get there. Waggy's position didn't alter his reaction in any way. Ditto Marshall for their goal. My point was about the consistency of the linesmen in both cases, which was the point that Cocu was quite rightly making. If one is offside then so is the other. VAR is a whole other topic and off topic. But my point on it would be that in every sport where it is used, bar football, it is used to judge matters of fact - tennis, cricket, american football, baseball for example. Only in football is it used to judge matters of opinion. It was introduced to get decisions right and to take human error out of the sport. Time after time it gets things wrong, so get rid and go back to human beings getting things wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Gritstone Ram said: Check out Jeff Hendricks goal v Forest @ the City Ground 2012. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: I don't think the ref was unsighted on the Jozwiak goal from the pictures behind the goal. I think he would/should have seen Waggy not interfering with play and the goalkeeper's reactions - you can clearly see from the camera behind the goal that Samba had a clear view of Jozwiak's shot, dived to save it and couldn't get there. Waggy's position didn't alter his reaction in any way. Ditto Marshall for their goal. My point was about the consistency of the linesmen in both cases, which was the point that Cocu was quite rightly making. If one is offside then so is the other. VAR is a whole other topic and off topic. But my point on it would be that in every sport where it is used, bar football, it is used to judge matters of fact - tennis, cricket, american football, baseball for example. Only in football is it used to judge matters of opinion. It was introduced to get decisions right and to take human error out of the sport. Time after time it gets things wrong, so get rid and go back to human beings getting things wrong. Stills not always help here on this instance. Cocu was wrong in his comparison for me. What I would say is that I think the lino was influenced by Waggy jumping, whereas the Forest goal the lino was correct in not giving offside because the other Forest player wasn’t in the way. Both goals should have stood but I can understand the lino putting his flag up for ours because of Waggy jumping, if that makes sense. Fair point VAR, I’d rather human error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Said it before, I’ll say it again, not only is this one of the most difficult leagues in the world to get out of but you are at the mercy of shoddy officiating every single week. In such a ruthless division it is the most horrible punch in the gut to have this happen to us twice in one week. Linesman are awful, almost all the refs are tiny bald blokes with small man syndrome, EFL are utter toss. Hate everything about it. Also find it mad that there are huge screens in every stadium but the refs can’t use them. I understand rules need to be fair but at some point this league is just a bloke sending an SOS via telegram to the fire service as his house burns down when there’s a ducking iPhone in his pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, David said: Fair to say that with VAR their goal would have been disallowed for the foul on Davies. Also, in terms of comparing the approach of the two linesmen - in both cases I think the flag should have gone up as in neither case could they realistically determine whether or not the keepers were unsighted. In both cases, the ref then has to make a decision. I think that's the consistency we're after really.... or just refs spotting blatant fouls. That would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said: Said it before, I’ll say it again, not only is this one of the most difficult leagues in the world to get out of but you are at the mercy of shoddy officiating every single week. In such a ruthless division it is the most horrible punch in the gut to have this happen to us twice in one week. Linesman are awful, almost all the refs are tiny bald blokes with small man syndrome, EFL are utter toss. Hate everything about it. Also find it mad that there are huge screens in every stadium but the refs can’t use them. I understand rules need to be fair but at some point this league is just a bloke sending an SOS via telegram to the fire service as his house burns down when there’s a ducking iPhone in his pocket. EFL do not appoint the officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 32 minutes ago, ram59 said: Wrong, with VAR in operation, the lino wouldn't have flagged, they let play continue and let VAR check every goal. It's a good job I don't bet then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: My view is any forward in and around the goalkeeper in an offside position is offside, irrespective of whether they touch the ball or not. Those aren't the rules though. He was offside but he wasn't impeding the goalkeepers vision. The goal should have stood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 It was a shocker! Lino,hes offside but he can’t determine whether he’s interfering with keeper’s eyeline. It’s down to the ref who relied on the Lino?’!!! Freeze frame it. Whatever Viv and his red tinted glasses saw waggy wasn’t in Samba’s eyeline. 100% the goal should stand. Doesnt take away from a great performance and a stunning finish from Jozwiak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 31 minutes ago, David said: Geoff Peters maybe a Leicester fan who shares a mutual dislike for the red dogs but absolutely bang on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: Geoff Peters maybe a Leicester fan who shares a mutual dislike for the red dogs but absolutely bang on Davies is experienced enough to have backed into him and gone down as soon as that rat faced runt grabbed his shirt- so that was disappointing. Similarly, when Knockeart came on any players first reaction should be that he's a good player but one of the biggest cheats in the game, one of us will get booked for a nothing tackle on him- get in first and make it count for real to slow him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Davies is experienced enough to have backed into him and gone down as soon as that rat faced runt grabbed his shirt- so that was disappointing. Similarly, when Knockeart came on any players first reaction should be that he's a good player but one of the biggest cheats in the game, one of us will get booked for a nothing tackle on him- get in first and make it count for real to slow him up. True for their goal. Jozwiak goal should've stood. They didn’t even complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, BramcoteRam84 said: True for their goal. Jozwiak goal should've stood. They didn’t even complain Absolutely. Another miserable decision to go up there with Johnson, Addison and the Huddlestone red card. ....Almost forgot the most blatant penalty you'll see against Lawrence the other year. Never mind, we haven't lost this fixture 5-0 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 We were unlucky with this decision with the benefit of a replay. But in real time, it is a tough call to make as it looks like Waghorn moves towards the ball. It’s one of those things - some days it goes in your favour, other days it goes against you. We just have to use any perceived injustice to fire us up and motivate us moving forward. We just need to kick on from here. A first home win in midweek would do very nicely and give us confidence going into another tough away game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustOneBiblicalKazim Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 We can argue forever about whether the goal should’ve stood (it should). But what really needs reviewing is the entire “offside interference” rule, you’ve either touched the ball or you ain’t, none of this baalocks about lines of site or obstructing the view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 If that goal has stood - I think we would have gone on to win by 3 or 4 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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