Reggie Greenwood Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: We did take out a £30m loan not long ago, so who knows how the finances really look. I suspect it's the lad at Norwich they really want to do a deal for and are just letting them know "we could buy someone else so lets get it done" I'd be sad, but realistic if we sell Sibley, delighted if we don't. As for the lad himself, if he's being looked at by Leeds now, hopefully he knows this move to Leeds right now isn't going to be his only chance to make it to the PL. And if it was anyone in the Prem who wasn't Leeds I think we'd all be a bit calmer about it. Loan was paid back in full as reported by our friend at the Athletic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Jubbs said: Honestly, did you even read the article? This is exactly what I mean about people choosing not to believe things because they don't want to. "Although the exact sum required to trigger the duo’s release from Pride Park remains undisclosed, sources close to the negotiation process claim it is around £5m less than the figure being reported in some sections of the media." You’re doing exactly the same thing you were doing yesterday. ”Look, John Percy said it was x but that’s clearly a plant by Mel and we can’t believe it. God everyone is so naive. Wow, the Sheffield Star have said it was x-y. I’m going to believe this one because it suits what I want to think. Everyone is so naive because they believe Percy over this local Sheffield based rag.” You are doing EXACTLY what you are accusing others of doing and that is believing whatever suits their own agenda. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the Sheffield Star knows any more than Percy (in fact, quite a lot would suggest Percy knows considerably more) but that’s what you are choosing to believe. Truth is no one knows so your patronising schtick that everyone else is naive and you are all-seeing is pretty boring. If we were skint I am not sure we’d have bought an in demand Polish international for multi millions, or signed players who will be on considerable wages. I think we saw an opportunity to sell Bogle (and Lowe) and replace with a similar if not better, albeit with less potential, for a tiny fraction of the price. We might be up against it with regards to FFP, but we don’t seem to be skint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, nottingram said: You’re doing exactly the same thing you were doing yesterday. ”Look, John Percy said it was x but that’s clearly a plant by Mel and we can’t believe it. God everyone is so naive. Wow, the Sheffield Star have said it was x-y. I’m going to believe this one because it suits what I want to think. Everyone is so naive because they believe Percy over this local Sheffield based rag.” You are doing EXACTLY what you are accusing others of doing and that is believing whatever suits their own agenda. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the Sheffield Star knows any more than Percy (in fact, quite a lot would suggest Percy knows considerably more) but that’s what you are choosing to believe. Truth is no one knows so your patronising schtick that everyone else is naive and you are all-seeing is pretty boring. If we were skint I am not sure we’d have bought an in demand Polish international for multi millions, or signed players who will be on considerable wages. I think we saw an opportunity to sell Bogle (and Lowe) and replace with a similar if not better, albeit with less potential, for a tiny fraction of the price. We might be up against it with regards to FFP, but we don’t seem to be skint. My rule of thumb for DCFC transfers is believe the lowest figure for money coming in and the highest for money going out. "Reasonable worst case" as the corona-warlords would put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Boycie said: I feel you’re right. How do you explain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Still waiting http://priceoffootball.com/tag/Derby-county/ I'm now pretty sure you've been living under a rock for the past 3 years if you don't know the state of our finances the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Jubbs said: People who are saying we're fine financially, to be quite blunt, are deluded. Like I said, I'm making educated guesses, yes I know, guesses, HOWEVER, I'm not being stupid and trying to lie and say everything is fine, because to be frank, it's clearly not. Our finances have been grim readings for years now. In all honesty I don't remember one serious post which suggested we're fine financially and if there was I would class it as extremely optimistic - only my opinion because I don't actually know. I think things are probably quite tight but again I've not seen any evidence to suggest how we stand one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 To be fair, 10 million would be a pretty damn good price for a player who’s only played a handful of games at senior level. It still wouldn’t make financial sense to sell now unless we have no choice mind. Sibley is nowhere near at his maximum value imo -next summer, or even in January, after playing more first team football, he will become more of a known quality rather than just potential, and his value would skyrocket. We should always try to avoid selling players before they’ve reached their maximum worth - which in fairness, I think Bogle and Lowe had done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 39 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Loan was paid back in full as reported by our friend at the Athletic Why did we need to take the loan in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Andicis said: Undisclosed fee. You can't just make up whatever number suits your agenda and call anyone else biased who doesn't agree. Bit like Chris Martin leaving the club really. Everyone thinks they know why he didn't sign but they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, Jubbs said: Why did we need to take the loan in the first place? Oh dear, now this! The vast majority of us take out loans at various times for many different reasons - surely the important thing is we pay it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 16 hours ago, Jourdan said: What do we value him at? Has that been made public? How do you know it’s more than £12 million? How do you know we don’t need to sell? Has that been made public also? You’re speculating just as much as I was. Will Hughes was arguably the best talent we have had in 20 years and we sold him for under £10 million. Why do you assume the eventual sale of Sibley will be different? I am not saying it won’t be, but it would be inconsistent with how the club have operated for decades. By precedent, I mean that clubs know we can be swayed by £8-12 million bids and will probably try their luck. Until we start selling players for £15-20 million and beyond on a regular basis, people will always have these worries that the club are going to be exploited in the market. ''I don't think anyone can afford him'' hardly sounds like the way you'd describe someone valued at less than £10m... https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/phillip-cocu-issues-louis-sibley-valuation-claim-that-Derby-fans-will-surely-love/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, ossieram said: Joswiak and the offer for Dursan show me that we're not in the desperate mess Why did we get a loan? No one fully knows, I am not saying I know, but if weren't in a bit of a mess, does the loan make sense? How was Jozwiak funded? What did we have to do, before we bought him? That's right, sell Bogle and Lowe. Dursun, we offered £1m and they wanted more didn't they? We backed out because they wanted too much and we can get him for free next summer, which is financially smart but also raises the question did we have the money they wanted for him? Also regarding Jozwiak/signings, Cocu made it VERY clear we needed to buy players, obviously which we got, but looking at signings other than Jozwiak: Marshall: Very low/free Byrne: Around 400k MtW: Free Duncan: Free Clarke: Loan Obviously it's sensible business and we've had a decent transfer window this summer, best for a while, but we've had to be smart because of 2 reasons: Covid and our recent failings in transfer windows/financial situation that we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: ''I don't think anyone can afford him'' hardly sounds like the way you'd describe someone valued at less than £10m Lets be honest here though, Cocu isn't in complete control of how much we sell players for, ultimately its Morris and if he sees an offer as acceptable, then he will override Cocu. Managers all over the world have left clubs before due to players being sold cheaply, not saying Cocu will leave or anything like that, but depending on the model of your club, it's not likely the managers say in how much a player is valued, is final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jubbs said: Why did we get a loan? No one fully knows, I am not saying I know, but if weren't in a bit of a mess, does the loan make sense? How was Jozwiak funded? What did we have to do, before we bought him? That's right, sell Bogle and Lowe. Dursun, we offered £1m and they wanted more didn't they? We backed out because they wanted too much and we can get him for free next summer, which is financially smart but also raises the question did we have the money they wanted for him? Also regarding Jozwiak/signings, Cocu made it VERY clear we needed to buy players, obviously which we got, but looking at signings other than Jozwiak: Marshall: Very low/free Byrne: Around 400k MtW: Free Duncan: Free Clarke: Loan Obviously it's sensible business and we've had a decent transfer window this summer, best for a while, but we've had to be smart because of 2 reasons: Covid and our recent failings in transfer windows/financial situation that we're in. Business men borrow and pay back money to suit there cash flow requirements at the time. The sale of the Stadium wasn't made because we were "skint" it was made to allow Mel to invest in DCFC in a legal way above the FFP requirements to try and keep us competitive with clubs with parachute payments and chairmen who own other clubs to circumvent FFP within the current rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, YorkshireRam said: ''I don't think anyone can afford him'' hardly sounds like the way you'd describe someone valued at less than £10m... https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/phillip-cocu-issues-louis-sibley-valuation-claim-that-Derby-fans-will-surely-love/ What Cocu and the club say publicly and what they actually say privately could be two different things. Comments like that were simply to warn clubs off back when Sibley first burst onto the scene. Maybe since then, bearing in mind the date for the return of fans got pushed back affecting revenue streams, our stance has changed? We are three days out from the deadline, in a time of genuine financial strain, and we are still short of 1-2 players and with no imminent resolution. Is it a coincidence that the Sibley news has broken just now? Interesting how one media outlet is also suggesting that we value Sibley around £10 million one day after our discussion over Sibley and market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 40 minutes ago, Jubbs said: http://priceoffootball.com/tag/Derby-county/ I'm now pretty sure you've been living under a rock for the past 3 years if you don't know the state of our finances the past few years. Jog on with your condescending nonsense i smell the stench of a wum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jubbs said: Lets be honest here though, Cocu isn't in complete control of how much we sell players for, ultimately its Morris and if he sees an offer as acceptable, then he will override Cocu. Managers all over the world have left clubs before due to players being sold cheaply, not saying Cocu will leave or anything like that, but depending on the model of your club, it's not likely the managers say in how much a player is valued, is final. It's unlikely Mel disagrees with this high valuation of our most saleable asset though? It's not like we need the funds for anything really either so there'd be no need at this stage of the season to sell cheap. There's obviously no concrete way of knowing but all the signs here would point to us only selling for a lucrative deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Jourdan said: What Cocu and the club say publicly and what they actually say privately could be two different things. Comments like that were simply to warn clubs off back when Sibley first burst onto the scene. Maybe since then, bearing in mind the date for the return of fans got pushed back affecting revenue streams, our stance has changed? We are three days out from the deadline, in a time of genuine financial strain, and we are still short of 1-2 players and with no imminent resolution. Is it a coincidence that the Sibley news has broken just now? Interesting how one media outlet is also suggesting that we value Sibley around £10 million one day after our discussion over Sibley and market value. No because it's not been all but confirmed they've leaked interest to force Norwich's hand with Cantwell, again leading me to believe our stance will (and always will have been) not to undervalue Sibley or sell him for less than he's worth Also ''with no imminent resolution'', loans tends to get sorted quick and this'll likely be the case. You do seem to be adding a slightly negative slant to try reinforce your point we're somehow under pressure to sell Sibley cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfan1958 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Personally if Derby get offered 10 million for Sibley then snatch there hand off he's not worth half of that amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, Jubbs said: I am not saying I know, FTFY You’re welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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