Have we progressed under Cocu?

[Rample]

Yes and no.

Some deadwood shifted. Kids definitely progressed to being first teamers. Upgrades on a few positions and some gaps filled. All whilst bringing wages down and turning a profit. Pretty impressive given 2 really disrupted summers.

The downside is lack of adapting to the division in terms of playing style and tactics. For all the decent incomings we have failed to address or act quickly enough in certain areas. Also for all the kids in the team I'm not sure any have really progressed massively, or any other more established players have really kicked on for that matter.

On the whole though it's just nice to have a settled backroom team, and think we will start to progress more going forward as a result. 

[Chris_Martin]

We have gone so far backwards under Cocu. 

Cocu's got absolutely zero passion and its really started to rub off on the players now.

He consistently fails to get the best from any of our players

Slow, Lazy, Boring football. Cant score a goal, conceding left, right, centre. 

Is this what Mel had in mind when he hired Cocu to continue 'The Derby Way'

[1977 Ram Raider]

Really wanted Cocu to succeed but it’s just not working out.

[leamram]

On 22/09/2020 at 11:20, Rample said:

Yes and no.

Some deadwood shifted. Kids definitely progressed to being first teamers. Upgrades on a few positions and some gaps filled. All whilst bringing wages down and turning a profit. Pretty impressive given 2 really disrupted summers.

The downside is lack of adapting to the division in terms of playing style and tactics. For all the decent incomings we have failed to address or act quickly enough in certain areas. Also for all the kids in the team I'm not sure any have really progressed massively, or any other more established players have really kicked on for that matter.

On the whole though it's just nice to have a settled backroom team, and think we will start to progress more going forward as a result. 

Deadwood out any manager could of done and was probably part of the job conditions 

Youngsters were too good to ignore for much longer but I felt he has used them well, but the style of football isn't suiting them or helping them progress IMO

[DCFC Kicks]

You can say we've progressed off the pitch in terms of restructuring the club etc. but that doesn't affect the tactics you use on the pitch. This team has massive problems when they're out of possession. Almost every single time they lose the ball it leads to a goal scoring opportunity for the opposition. I'm not blaming individual players for this. What can te Wierik do when every 5-10 minutes he has 3 players bearing down on him with no help in front of him and another player completely unmarked on the overlap out wide? This is the way the manager is choosing to play. When has a team ever been successful in the championship when they do literally no pressing? You can say they're missing a presence up front, but Marriott is very similar type of player the Armstrong today and Blackburn created many chances for him (granted it's easy against Derby). What was the point in wasting so much of preseason working on a 3 at the back when there even worse than usual with it? Been outplayed every game of the season so far even against Barrow... BARROW! for gods sake!

[Gerry Daly]

My initial impression of him was that he was really boring and passionless and the football he plays was the same boring rubbish that Paul Clement played. Then I warmed to him a bit and became quite optimistic. But I'm afraid I've gone off him again. Its a results business and the results are appalling. Boring slow, negative football plus good results is OK. But the boring football is producing crap results. Rooney is shot but stays in the side and stays on the pitch. Picks MDW- who looks very poor - ahead of Clarke and plays him on the right and Wisdom on the left. Shooting yourself in the foot. He finishes his radio interview with saying the attitude of the players isn't good enough and Marriott who was taken off isn't injured. So isn't it his fault if the collective attitude of the players isn't right?           

[Bluedogmaz]

No - Certainly not yet!

[G-Ram]

No we haven't & people are using injuries as an excuse. We have Lawrence out who half the forum hate, waghorn who is hardly prolific & bielik who has hardly kicked a ball & wasnt exactly brilliant before injury. 

I wanted it to work but im sick of slow boring sideways & backwards passing. I feel like i did watching clements football ... Depressed 

[1967RAMS]

The only positive thing to come from the Covid19 pandemic is the fact that i don’t have to waste time and money, watching this dog she ite every week 

[May Contain Nuts]

12 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

I wanted it to work but im sick of slow boring sideways & backwards passing

None of which was in evidence today. On the ball we were pretty good. Off the ball we were godawful, shocking, terrible and lots of other bad words.

Again, our desired "style of football" isn't slow, boring side to side crap rubbish, that's just our execution. We lost today because of abysmal defensive organisation and desire, mainly from the middle, to close them down.

If people want to criticise the coaching, performance, team selection, subs, etc, then yeah, fine.

Just stop propagating untruths about manager's preferred style of play.

[G-Ram]

6 minutes ago, Coconut said:

None of which was in evidence today. On the ball we were pretty good. Off the ball we were godawful, shocking, terrible and lots of other bad words.

Again, our desired "style of football" isn't slow, boring side to side crap rubbish, that's just our execution. We lost today because of abysmal defensive organisation and desire, mainly from the middle, to close them down.

If people want to criticise the coaching, performance, team selection, subs, etc, then yeah, fine.

Just stop propagating untruths about manager's preferred style of play.

Its not an untruth though. If a team sits back it is how we play & we cant break them down. Its an observation from the first few games. Im not wanting him out based solely on today

If a team doesn't sit back like blackburn then we get beat based on quality. They were better in every department. We fail to close down, we don't defend from the front. We line up negative with two defensive midfielders. We play players out of positions trying to be clever. Its not working. Its frustrating that we look like the other team works harder 

Its become, predictable, boring & depressing to watch. I dont imagine anyone sets out to be crap & that be their desirable style of play but it is how its excuted and thats the issue

[JAT]

On 19/09/2020 at 22:16, Andicis said:

Difficult to answer question. The overall health of the club has definitely improved, we've cut the fat from the squad, made some money from player sales and made our wage bill much more manageable. For a multitude of reasons, we're not making great strides forwards on the pitch, but we at least are building the ground work to make that happen.

We've had our most positive transfer window in a long time. 

Lawrence, Waghorn, Bielik. A fit Rooney and Holmes. Will completely change things.

[RamNut]

35 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

He finishes his radio interview with saying the attitude of the players isn't good enough and Marriott who was taken off isn't injured. So isn't it his fault if the collective attitude of the players isn't right?           

I haven’t heard the interview, but that sounds awful. How are we supposed to attract players if we are putting out that kind of message?
It also not true. 

[Ramfan1958]

1 minute ago, RamNut said:

I haven’t heard the interview, but that sounds awful. How are we supposed to attract players if we are putting out that kind of message?
It also not true. 

Let's get real Rooney is past it , Cocu is rubbish liked I posted 6 months ago if I could  put one new managers name it would be Paul Cook .

[May Contain Nuts]

14 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Its not an untruth though. If a team sits back it is how we play & we cant break them down. Its an observation from the first few games. Im not wanting him out based solely on today

If a team doesn't sit back like blackburn then we get beat based on quality. They were better in every department. We fail to close down, we don't defend from the front. We line up negative with two defensive midfielders. We play players out of positions trying to be clever. Its not working. Its frustrating that we look like the other team works harder 

Its become, predictable, boring & depressing to watch. I dont imagine anyone sets out to be crap & that be their desirable style of play but it is how its excuted and thats the issue

Sorry - It was more a general comment than specifically at your post.

We're all fed up of seeing such a poor execution, but I don't think you can come on after today's match and really talk about slow, sidewards passing in a game which, ironically for a 4-0 thrashing, we genuinely played some nice, quick tempo stuff and created enough decent chances.

There are plenty who do come out and claim that the sidewards, backwards, possession for possession's sake football is by design of Cocu's ideals, and it is a mistruth!

Your post illustrated perfectly well what does usually end up happening, but it isn't happening by design, it's happening via execution & a general lack of pace & creativity in the squad, which we're starting to address.

[Shaftesbury Street]

We have used the 'dealt a poor hand' excuse to defend him and rightly so, but that was up there with the worst performances I've ever seen from Derby. It wasn't just the players, it was the system, no one knew what they were doing, which is shocking. We can't even put it down to a one off either because we have been poor every single game this season. 

A couple more games to turn it around from me. If the players stop responding over those games we need to change managers. Simple as that.

[WestKentRam]

I somehow imagined we'd be playing Dutch total football of the Cruyff 70s era. Hasn't happened yet and on reflection I'm not sure striving for such in the Championship in 2020 is going to work.

[RoyMac5]

45 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Just stop propagating untruths about manager's preferred style of play.

We can only comment on what is seen on the pitch, not what is in the manager's head!

[May Contain Nuts]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We can only comment on what is seen on the pitch, not what is in the manager's head!

You can comment on what the manager explicitly says he wants to see though, and recognise that our style of play on the ball today was evidence that he isn't lying about it.

[G-Ram]

11 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Sorry - It was more a general comment than specifically at your post.

We're all fed up of seeing such a poor execution, but I don't think you can come on after today's match and really talk about slow, sidewards passing in a game which, ironically for a 4-0 thrashing, we genuinely played some nice, quick tempo stuff and created enough decent chances.

There are plenty who do come out and claim that the sidewards, backwards, possession for possession's sake football is by design of Cocu's ideals, and it is a mistruth!

Your post illustrated perfectly well what does usually end up happening, but it isn't happening by design, it's happening via execution & a general lack of pace & creativity in the squad, which we're starting to address.

I get what youre saying but the thread title is about have we progressed under Cocu.

I don't believe we have. Im not digging him out soley on todays performance. 9 times out of 10 our build up is clement esq. Its a general comment that we are slow & lathargic on most occasions. Not basing that on today but multiple other performances. 

I dont believe his style works. Whilst what we are being served up now might not be his desire. I still dont like lining up negative with two DMs. His style or not we can still be busting a gut to get in the box comitting men forward. 

We put crosses in the box & there are three defending players & one of our attacking. Its too easy to defend against. Were lightweight in the middle. We have two deep playing midfielders but where is the destroyer breaking up play. 

We've ended up with ball playing centre backs that cant defend, devensive midfields who play CB. Im not sure whos organising & taking control on the pitch.. We have players playing out of positions & players occuying the same position.

To be honest its a confusing mess. It reminds me of when LVG was in charge at united. 

If we dont have the players to implement cocu's style then play to the players you currently have strength & slowly change the style ?‍♂️

We need to get back to basics, close the oppotion down, get a bit rougher, dont get out muscled. 

The only positive is we have brought youngsters through but i dont think he's had a choice. Im also unsure throwing youngsters in & exposing them everyweek is good for their development or confidence. 

All last season i was firmly cocu im & give him a chance but ive lost patience. Its not good enough