RoyMac5 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Coconut said: You can comment on what the manager explicitly says he wants to see though, and recognise that our style of play on the ball today was evidence that he isn't lying about it. He can wish it was different, but he is the manager - make it different. Again we can only comment on what we see, In Cocu's tenure we have rarely seen what he wishes it seems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, G-Ram said: I still dont like lining up negative with two DMs. His style or not we can still be busting a gut to get in the box comitting men forward. We put crosses in the box & there are three defending players & one of our attacking. Its too easy to defend against. Were lightweight in the middle. We have two deep playing midfielders but where is the destroyer breaking up play. We don't have anyone on the books capable of playing the DM role by themselves, for various reasons. Well we do, possibly, but he's the answer to the bit I've bolded - where is he? Recovering from an ACL injury which has kept him out for a year. Shinnie could play the destroyer role, but you lose out in other ways when he plays. But yes, with Bird & Rooney both being a bit cack defensively maybe we just need to accept that we're going to get ran through every single game regardless of whether there are 1, 2 or 3 of them playing DM, say balls to it and commit one of them further forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaragozaram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Clearly no, we haven´t. Not in league position, not in general play, not in excitement, not in any measure that a football manager is judged on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: He can wish it was different, but he is the manager - make it different. Again we can only comment on what we see, In Cocu's tenure we have rarely seen what he wishes it seems? But, we can't only comment on what we can see. We can comment on what we see, hear & read taking every factor into consideration before coming to an informed conclusion, basing everything on what you can see alone is stupid! ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coconut said: We don't have anyone on the books capable of playing the DM role by themselves, for various reasons. Well we do, possibly, but he's the answer to the bit I've bolded - where is he? Recovering from an ACL injury which has kept him out for a year. Shinnie could play the destroyer role, but you lose out in other ways when he plays. But yes, with Bird & Rooney both being a bit cack defensively maybe we just need to accept that we're going to get ran through every single game regardless of whether there are 1, 2 or 3 of them playing DM, say balls to it and commit one of them further forward. Or you change the formation ?♂️ and play to the strengths of the players you have at your disposal. Bielik has shown he was alright on the ball. In my opinion most Derby fans have built him up in their heads though. I thought he was very average for us before injury & didn't offer much when he played. For some reason people are expecting him to come back & change the way we play. In fact reading the forum some think our form will magically up turn when Lawrence & waghorn return. We wernt great at the end of last season when they were both in the side. I think if we sack off two DM and comit further forward then it gives somthing for opposition defenders to think about. At the moment its all too easy for the opposition. We supposedly have this great youth academy & all the players coming through are decent. I agree with this but if they are that good why arnt we winning ?♂️ s Its cocu's job to get the best out of the side he has at his disposal which i dont think he is doing at this moment. I haven't seen anything that makes me think we have progressed from lampard. If anything we've gone backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Coconut said: But, we can't only comment on what we can see. We can comment on what we see, hear & read taking every factor into consideration before coming to an informed conclusion, basing everything on what you can see alone is stupid! ?? OK you comment on how we wanted to play and I'll comment on how we did play. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Am wondering where we go from today to be honest. As Cocu has gradually eroded all of the confidence from his side over the past number of months and looks likes it's reached rock bottom today. Will take an exceptional manager to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: OK you comment on how we wanted to play and I'll comment on how we did play. ?? Yes! Comment on how we played. That's good! Just don't come out with some utter baalocks about Cocu's desired 'style of football' (or words to a similar effect) being slow, backwards, sidewards possession based football with nobody taking risks when it's quite obviously not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: OK you comment on how we wanted to play and I'll comment on how we did play. ?? Yes! Comment on how we played. Just don't come out with some utter baalocks about Cocu's desired style being slow, backwards, sidewards possession based football with nobody taking risks when it's quite obviously not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coconut said: Just don't come out with some utter baalocks about Cocu's desired 'style of football' (or words to a similar effect) being slow, backwards, sidewards possession based football with nobody taking risks when it's quite obviously not the case. Not me. Edit: why play two 'slow' CDMs? But that was obviously what has been seen. Why can't Cocu get his players to play how he wants? Or should he look to get the best out of the players he has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, G-Ram said: Or you change the formation ?♂️ and play to the strengths of the players you have at your disposal. Which is, currently.... what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphanram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I really want Cocu to succeed and would be really pleased to see him turn it around but he and his team need to work out a way to get more out of his team, particularly their mentality in how they approach games. Dutch coaches have in the past have been accused of being too cerebral and rigid in their man management approach (Koeman, De Boer) and not flexing their methods to work with a more ‘Anglo Saxon’ mentality. That may well be depressing for some with a more high handed, pan European outlook on life but when you read about Guardiola and Klopp, a big part of their philosophy is how they adapt their philosophy to form a hybrid of what their previous success has been built on. You often hear about how they immerse themselves in the culture and ways of the countries they have decided to work in, which is more likely be driven by a desire to be able to get under the skin of the whole club ( British players, the club staff who interact with players, everyday etc..) than a burning love for dear old Blighty. The conditions of Dutch football are also more forgiving for younger players to come in and get on the ball and be brave as lot of the teams are consistently selling their best players when they mature. If that is the environment across all of the clubs in the league, then neat technical footballers will have much less mental and physical pressure to carry out the tactics laid out by the coaches. For me PC needs to find a way to integrate some of the successful tactical approaches deployed by the better championship teams and work out how he creates a hybrid with some of his own philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coconut said: Yes! Comment on how we played. That's good! Just don't come out with some utter baalocks about Cocu's desired 'style of football' (or words to a similar effect) being slow, backwards, sidewards possession based football with nobody taking risks when it's quite obviously not the case. Like any manager anywhere at any time sets out to play like that! Maybe for a one off, against far superior opposition, but never as a basis for consistent success over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not me. That was obviously what has been seen. Why can't Cocu get his players to play how he wants? Or should he look to get the best out of the players he has? No, not you specifically. He got the best out of them last season, IMO, or very nearly the best given all of the circumstances. This season, as it stands, the squad is significantly weaker Again, what style of play gets the best out of this team? It's got huge, gaping flaws in it, and every solution brings about a new problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Just now, Coconut said: No, not you specifically. Oh thank goodness I feel much happier now. ? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Coconut said: Which is, currently.... what? Im not paid to manage Derby. That's Cocu's job which he is currently failing at. We look terrible & im not sure how anyone is still trying to defend him. There is nothing to suggest we will come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coconut said: Which is, currently.... what? I'll ask you a question. Do you think Frank Lampard would get more out of this group of players than Cocu? I certainly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I'm starting to wonder if Mel went to Billy Smart to find him? Cocu the clown today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Rammy03 said: I'll ask you a question. Do you think Frank Lampard would get more out of this group of players than Cocu? I certainly do. No Any prolonged period without any one of Mount, Wilson or Tomori under Lampard and we were ducking awful. We couldn't defend under him either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake the ram Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Cocci out.end of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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