v Reading (H) Match Thread

[Gritstone Ram]

After the performance today I’m tempted to say Cocu out and get Paul Cook in.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Gisby said:

I think if you read my post I said ‘appear to expect immediate success’ what’s your point Roy??

What are they expecting then? What is your point Gisby?!

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Van Gritters said:

After the performance today I’m tempted to say Cocu out and get Paul Cook in.

I think we are in for the long haul under Cocu...long term plan.

[Anag Ram]

Too many nice guys in our team. 

Plenty of petulant kicks but no hard challenges. 

And no responsibility taken in possession. 

But we have 45 games left. 

It can be overturned. 

[Ellafella]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Ok Eĺla, you know your onions....whats the remedy?

Change the system we play. Some believe that the way a team plays reflects the personality of the manager. So, slow, hesitant, unsure, over-systemic, cautious. . . As many are saying, this recipe of over-elaborate, laboured and timid will not work in the Championship. Either change the system or change the manager. Otherwise we will all sleepwalk through this season. 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

Change the system we play. Some believe that the way a team plays reflects the personality of the manager. So, slow, hesitant, unsure, over-systemic, cautious. . . As many are saying, this recipe of over-elaborate, laboured and timid will not work in the Championship. Either change the system or change the manager. Otherwise we will all sleepwalk through this season. 

I don’t get what the system is?

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

I think what we are missing is a forward who can hold the ball up, maybe not blessed with lots of pace, but someone with great ball control and who will draw defenders and create gaps for the likes of sibley to run into...probably also chip in with 10-15 goals too..

anyone know a player like that ?

But to get a player of that quality they would command a decent contract which the club seem unwilling/unable to give

[S8TY]

Looking at that today we need 3-4 players but Lawrence and Waghorn were missed ...also Whittaker looked better on the right than when he got switched to the left ...Sibley Knight was off the pace today and Bird has had better games ...Rooney looked unfit and maybe was only on bench because we are lacking attackers ...let’s see what we look like with 2 or 3 more signings ...a strong decent CF is a must and with Lawrence and Jozwiak will change the dynamics of the side ...too early to panic we all know it was poor 

[May Contain Nuts]

29 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

Well if you want to go down that route no problem at all. Let's compare shall we. For the reposnse, we shall use last seasons statistics shall we, so to make it easy for you the 19/20 season. By the way all these stats are available online, so feel free to check. Hope I have not lost you yet.

First of all let's compare possession. So last season, we averaged 54% possession, which placed us in the top 5 concerning this particular stat. Leeds averaged 59.5%. While your brain will go, possession means nothing and does not win you matches, and quite rightly so, we are the living proof of that. However, Leeds proved that while dominating possession, then actually do something with it. They had the most shots last season in the whole division, and were way up there with chances created.

Then let's move onto movement without the ball. While we are fairly ponderous, waiting to soak up pressure, leeds are on you like a rash, they had the highest ball recovery rate in the division by the way, which then enabled then to counter at speed. this agressive style of play seemed to work (they did get promoted after all). Ours on the other hand does visibly not or we would be up wouldn't we.

The amazing thing is that Bielsa got them going with pretty much the same squad as the previous manager, most of them were there. Cooper, Klich, Aliosky, Shackleton (whom he had to sell by the way), Roberts, Phillips. Shall I go on? That is a bit like Cocu. Ok he may have had some unforseen problems, but he inherited the squad which was a mixed bunch from previous managers that all played different systems (don't forget leeds were changing managers like there is no tomorrow), but Cocu in essence, inherited a squad that was also made up of aquisitions done by multiple managers.

I am not saying that Cocu needs to be like Bielsa, but what I am saying is that players can be made to fit a managers philosophy, Bielsa is proof of that. So your argument that we don't have the players to play this way is nonsense. Has it occured to you that the way we are playing is the way that Cocu wishes to play? Slow possession based football. I for one would sooner lose, but see some god damn intensity.

I could go on forever on this topic, but I won't because quite frankly, I can't be bothered, and I have alreday wasted enough of my time reply to you.

Willing to talk now?

 

 

 

Sorry, but who do you think you are exactly? ?

You start off by calling my post 'baalocks', then you go on a weird little rant trying to insult my intelligence and finish off by saying that you can't be bothered, and you think you've wasted enough time on me already?

Utterly pathetic, and just a tiny bit weird.

...and you still didn't even address the point at hand, you've just told me how a Bielsa team plays, which we already know, but you've provided absolutely no insight whatsoever into the type of players he had at his disposal or how well positioned they were to take onboard his ideas.

Simply pointing out that we've both had a mix of players from various managers doesn't really say anything, other than to prove that you don't really know how the two teams stacked up in any sort of depth. SO yes, you really have wasted your breath, but that's not my fault.

There's simply no way that even Bielsa could have got the Derby County squad of 2018/19 (is that really the season before last, I wouldn't have known if you hadn't told me!) or 2019/20 (The numbers indicate a year? Who knew!?) performing in anywhere near the same manner.

Also it's quite clear from what Cocu & his coaches say that he has no intention for us to play in a manner anywhere near as poorly as we have been doing.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, S8TY said:

Looking at that today we need 3-4 players but Lawrence and Waghorn were missed ...also Whittaker looked better on the right than when he got switched to the left ...Sibley Knight was off the pace today and Bird has had better games ...Rooney looked unfit and maybe was only on bench because we are lacking attackers ...let’s see what we look like with 2 or 3 more signings ...a strong decent CF is a must and with Lawrence and Jozwiak will change the dynamics of the side ...too early to panic we all know it was poor 

We need a Mount like player in midfield who can create something too....

[S8TY]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think we are in for the long haul under Cocu...long term plan.

Last time we had a scouser in that turned out well lol ...keep the faith our team is not finished yet not Cocus fault we haven’t got the players he wants in 

[RYRAM]

8 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

After the performance today I’m tempted to say Cocu out and get Paul Cook in.

for God sake relax. 

yes we had a poor game 

yes it didn't go to plan 

yes we need a striker ( working on it)

yes we need wingers ( working on it) 

we all want Derby to win and I belive in cocu we will hoping so new additions by Tuesday come on lads more tempo please 

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Sheffield Wednesday are below us even though winning

Give it another 4 or 5 matches

[S8TY]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We need a Mount like player in midfield who can create something too....

Yep agree Ejaria was good today for them but maybe a Bannan or a Jota I don’t know but although our kids are good I can’t see them being consistent enough to be regulars except Bird 

[Gisby]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What are they expecting then? What is your point Gisby?!

Think I made my point in my original post, still waiting for you to make yours?

[Jram]

39 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

It's not just the tactics. It's the overall lack of strategic planning, organisation and decision making from key figures at the club that compounds matters and makes games like today both frustrating and painfully predictable.

Pre season was a mess. Kids in the under 18s were getting more minutes than first team regulars. No partnerships or semblance of team structure was developed. Three at the back was trialled when we should have stuck with our primary system and worked on making it more effective and developing tempo.

OK, we are still waiting on signings in attacking areas. But let's be honest, the moment Martin's contract negotiations broke down, we should have made attacking players the first priority. With Lawrence already nursing an injury at that point, we were missing two players who contributed to over 30 goals last season.

We were left with Waghorn and Marriott. Anyone who has watched Marriott in the last nine months knows he hasn't looked right since Lampard left and cannot be relied upon. So effectively we were down to just Waghorn as a reliable, dependable option. He gets injured and boom, the perfect storm.

Yes, the embargo would have complicated matters. One in, one out. The poor financial situation too. But could we have focused on signing two attacking players and closed deals for Marshall and Clarke, for example, later in the window?

Marshall, Clarke, Te Wierik and Byrne are smart additions, but could we have held fire on them and focused on our attack? The lack of goals, creativity, and intensity has been evident for months and should have been addressed as quickly as possible.

No-one has buried Cocu or the players, but you can understand the frustration. Back in July, we were well beaten by the cream of the division and it should have been a wake up call. But we've just meandered along. Today we were beaten by a Reading side that will be mid-table at best and as it stands, can't even go into Luton away with any confidence.

Having concern is perfectly understandable, and not an overreaction at all. This has been bubbling away for months.

This level of captain hindsightness makes me sick 

If we win the next five, you aren’t allowed to celebrate ?

[Rab a dab doo]

I believe Mr Cocu needs to decomplicate his approach just a little.

Firstly, decide on what's his best team (after all our signings are completed) and stick with it.

Instill into each them what is required of them (keeping it simple) and how they should work as unit within his chosen method of play.  

Secondly, try not confuse them too much by  continually varying the teams personnel/formation/style play (if possible), injury's and form permitting. 

Thirdly if he has faith in players abilities/skill to stick with them, as believe in them will eventually be rewarded (as we saw with some of our youngsters last year).

One defeat at home does spell relegation nor does one win promotion. 

Keep the faith, this a marathon not a sprint.

There is a long long way to go and there will be many twist and turns.

So get behind boys.

Com'n u Rams

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Gisby said:

Think I made my point in my original post, still waiting for you to make yours?

Obviously you didn't. You implied that fans who were moaning wanted 'immediate success' (and tried to water it down by saying your version of 'allegedly' which was 'appeared'. Does that make my point any clearer when I said too late for 'immediate'?

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, DCFC1976 said:

Joao has been good today and exactly what we need, strong, skilful and can hold the ball up... saw suggestions we were trying to sign him but comments were that we wasn’t good enough!! 

Just amended your comment for you

[S8TY]

By the way watching Leeds now in Tv we do not need Roberts