DanS1992 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, Coconut said: Give me a direct side by side comparison of the strengths and weaknesses of our squad vs the one Bielsa took over, how different styles of play would suit the individual players and balance of their squad and we'll talk. Well if you want to go down that route no problem at all. Let's compare shall we. For the reposnse, we shall use last seasons statistics shall we, so to make it easy for you the 19/20 season. By the way all these stats are available online, so feel free to check. Hope I have not lost you yet. First of all let's compare possession. So last season, we averaged 54% possession, which placed us in the top 5 concerning this particular stat. Leeds averaged 59.5%. While your brain will go, possession means nothing and does not win you matches, and quite rightly so, we are the living proof of that. However, Leeds proved that while dominating possession, then actually do something with it. They had the most shots last season in the whole division, and were way up there with chances created. Then let's move onto movement without the ball. While we are fairly ponderous, waiting to soak up pressure, leeds are on you like a rash, they had the highest ball recovery rate in the division by the way, which then enabled then to counter at speed. this agressive style of play seemed to work (they did get promoted after all). Ours on the other hand does visibly not or we would be up wouldn't we. The amazing thing is that Bielsa got them going with pretty much the same squad as the previous manager, most of them were there. Cooper, Klich, Aliosky, Shackleton, Clark (whom he had to sell by the way), Roberts, Phillips. Shall I go on? That is a bit like Cocu. Ok he may have had some unforseen problems, but he inherited the squad which was a mixed bunch from previous managers that all played different systems (don't forget leeds were changing managers like there is no tomorrow), but Cocu in essence, inherited a squad that was also made up of aquisitions done by multiple managers. I am not saying that Cocu needs to be like Bielsa, but what I am saying is that players can be made to fit a managers philosophy, Bielsa is proof of that. So your argument that we don't have the players to play this way is nonsense. Has it occured to you that the way we are playing is the way that Cocu wishes to play? Slow possession based football. I for one would sooner lose, but see some god damn intensity. I could go on forever on this topic, but I won't because quite frankly, I can't be bothered, and I have alreday wasted enough of my time replying to you. Willing to talk now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StantonRam Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 OK I was wrong, ah well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Monty said: the first point does not need addressing retrospectively but in preparation this is straightforward stuff. I would suggest the second is also down to planing and coaching - how to defend a long ball. Is there a sense of urgency or inspiration you can see Do you imagine in a million years that Cocu (or anyone else) said, 'Don't pick up their main threat from corners', 'Drift away from the post as soon as the corner comes in', 'Andre, drift back and make sure you are completely unaware of the runner coming through the space where you should be' or such things. Do you think we conceded two goals because the players were doing exactly what the manager told them to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldstar Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 I always find it pretty creepy when people remember and track down what other posters have said. Anyway, as stated above, i think Cocu has gotten off pretty lightly compared to some managers given even less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Big Cocu fan... But lots of 'its the first day of the season' stuff.... Surely that's the point? It's the first game of the season and we were slow, diffident, negative and downright poor. Every right to moan if the promise and effort wasn't really there. Its like going on a first date and her turning up with no makeup and in her tracksuit, saying 'well you ain't coming back first date anyway'... At least make it look like you got prepared even if everything isn't on offer for a few more weeks. Things haven’t been great since the Florist game. I am too long in the tooth to overreact. I can remember losing 1-0 at home to Oldham first game of the season in the promotion season under Cox. That was the only home game we lost all season. Cocu needs to be given plenty of time to put things right. However, I think there are some fundamental problems that do need to be addressed. The lack of tempo, lack of creativity and lack of a cutting edge are real concerns. I hope they are addressed with incomings soon. And as an aside, it is not much fun watching this current Derby side.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 hour ago, IslandExile said: Predictable. We knew before the game that, with the injuries, it would be difficult for us to create anything in this game. So it proved. We also knew that, despite that, the Cocu "doubters" would be out in force. So it is being proven. One final thought, much as I am excited by the youngsters breaking into the team, today showed how much we need proven, experienced quality. I'm not sure that Knight, Sibley and Whitaker are yet ready enough for all three to be starting. And, yes, I appreciate that, out of necessity, Sibley is playing out of position. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 They (Reading) looked like a team, unlike us work in progress. They were well drilled in a method of play each knowing their role, quick,athletic and full of idea's and running. This even though they had a new manager who had only joined them a couple of weeks ago. I think they could surprise a few teams this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 From watching the game and also post lockdown I prefer wisdom at cb than right back. He still isn't match fit either feom the stabbing and we should have played Byrne from the start I know he is new but at least probably 100 percent fit after playing pre season quite a bit. We are very worrying at set pieces and I feel we need to improve defending then quickly or again we will concede a lot of goals again. Te wierik needs to adapt quickly as he looked short on the speed. I love Clarke he's brill but his turn of pace worries me a he'll of a lot. Not quick enough for balls in behind. Hence the Stoke goal last season. Heading and everything else is fine. Forsyth brilliant service but not the answer to left back ever since injuries not the same buchannan should have played for me get him in and let him learn. Like shinnies commitment but he's not good enough for team wanting top 6 and top 2. Love bird but until he gets his head up and look for a forward pass he will never be the full package. Still got age on his side but like shinnie he gets the ball either its a backward pass or slows the play down. A bielik with him would make him better someone to drive with the ball and let him do the mopping up. Even Steve Nicholson mentioned in his ratings though that he needs to get his forward passing go. Love sibley but he needs to learn about making space and being more intelligent. He is going to be man marked a lot now and when team have done this since lockdown he has been ineffective. Still young and can learn but needs to learn quick for us to have promotion aspirations as currently everything will have to go through him as the times last season since lockdown when we won or played well it was through him Knight isn't a winger full stop and was ineffective out there. Need Lawrence back. Whittaker actually looked okay but needs to use his brain more but that will come with time but don't think he's a winger. Marriott is a great striker when confident he has no confidence and you can tell. Also with all the backwards and sideways he has no service but we need a bigger striker like a 23 year old Martin. All in all with the injured players back we have a good team but think we need 2 wingers and a striker. Would like to see 2 wingers and move Lawrence to compete with sibley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Monty said: cant get away from the fact that the two goals we conceded (although we were outplayed overall) were training/coaching issues - the first from the corner with Joao not tracked and the second just a long kick from the keeper. This is down to management and Cocu needs to address this not stand around chatting at 60 minutes with his hands in his pockets. Or a player didn't follow instructions. Or wisdom inexplicably ran inside MTW/Joao when Ejaria was outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Saunder’s hat trick Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Scan read some of the previous posts. I’m getting a running theme “we were awful, tactics were bad must make changes” I’d say it’s no biggie. Missing 4 attacking first team players through injury In Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes and Rooney (yes I know he came on but doubt he was anywhere near fully fit) and we’ve not got our transfer business finished yet. Didn’t expect anything more than a point today with the players we had available and tbh I thought we’d struggle to score and would probs lose. But hey, there’s plenty of time. We won’t start the season that strongly but once injured players are recovered and we get Jozwiak, a striker and possibly additional wide player in and we’re circa 15-18 games into the season, we’ll have a better idea of how we’re going to fair this season. UTR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Gisby said: and then there are those that appear to expect immediate success Errr we're a bit away from 'immediate' success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: I’d bet against that all day long It was only yesterday I was reading an Article about how much in disarray reading were on the eve of the new season. i think that was two v v ordinary sides that will do well to finish above mid table no pressure then on the returning and incoming Agree, a lot of average teams would have looked good against the Rams today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jourdan said: But let's be honest, the moment Martin's contract negotiations broke down, we should have made attacking players the first priority. THIS. Going nowhere without a proper replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 By way of comparison, Leeds just scored a goal involving 5 runners into the box. Away at the league champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: It’s funny that over past couple of seasons 75% of posts were slagging Lawrence off, shouldn’t be in the team, he’s lazy, total waste of space and should be sold. Now, without him, he is suddenly going to become our saviour ? He isn'tthe saviour but is better than Whittaker. The gap between saviour and Whittaker allows a lot of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: The manager sets us up in such a way that we don't run in behind the opposition defence, we play everything in front of them making it easy to defend. Doesn't mean the players aren't capable of running, we just don't play that way and I can't understand why. I thought you were talking about running at the opposition not running in behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Do you imagine in a million years that Cocu (or anyone else) said, 'Don't pick up their main threat from corners', 'Drift away from the post as soon as the corner comes in', 'Andre, drift back and make sure you are completely unaware of the runner coming through the space where you should be' or such things. Do you think we conceded two goals because the players were doing exactly what the manager told them to do? They were goals that really should’ve been stopped. Basic defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Just now, Ruda Harliss said: They were goals that really should’ve been stopped. Basic defending. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said: I was poo at football but I did score a goal once in a 7-0 win for Bakewell over Hope Were you at the game? It was for the Under 15s in about 1976 and it was the famous game where they ran out of half time oranges. I scored the 6th, a rasping tap in from 2 yards out after tripping over my own laces. Jack tried to recreate it today, but he was too far out and clearly had consumed citrus. No sorry. I should have said, I no longer live in Hope having moved to Dispair sometime last season.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Errr we're a bit away from 'immediate' success. I think if you read my post I said ‘appear to expect immediate success’ what’s your point Roy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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