Ghost of Clough Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, RamNut said: He has got something. There is a touch of quality about him Whittaker is a central striker, possibly a striker who would drop off like Chris Martin as he doesn’t have a lot of pace. In the old days he would be one of a strike pair, and the way he linked with sibley shows how that would work. Unfortunately the set up with only one striker means he often gets played out of position. maybe cocu - like bielsa - wants players to be able to play a variety of positions. It’s a thin line between success - knight and Sibley - and failure - elsnik and Vernam. Whittaker is a right inside forward who has frequently played CF. Stretton was out for an extended run last season, so Whittaker stepped up to play the CF role. I mentioned earlier on in the season that it took Whittaker a while to adjust to U18 football. When he did, he was banging in goals every game and contributing a lot of assists too. It took him a few games to adjust to U23 football. When he did he was getting a goal or an assist every game. It has been no surprise to me that it's taken him this long to make a contribution to the first team. U18s 16/17 - 1 goal in 10 apps 17/18 - 10 goals in 20 apps 18/19 - 20 goals and 12 assists in 20 apps U23s 17/18 - 0 goals in 2 apps 18/19 - 0 goals in 5 apps 19/20 - 6 goals and 4 assists in 8 apps (5 goals and 3 assists in 4 U19 apps as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiverton Ram Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I think he should be loaned to a league 1 club next season just for some extra experience. He was great last night, but a short term or a season long loan could push his development on further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, RamNut said: He has got something. There is a touch of quality about him Whittaker is a central striker, possibly a striker who would drop off like Chris Martin as he doesn’t have a lot of pace. In the old days he would be one of a strike pair, and the way he linked with sibley shows how that would work. Unfortunately the set up with only one striker means he often gets played out of position. maybe cocu - like bielsa - wants players to be able to play a variety of positions. It’s a thin line between success - knight and Sibley - and failure - elsnik and Vernam. It is. Although I would point out that Elsnik is now playing regular football for top flight Slovenian side Nk Olimpija Ljubljana and has scored three goals in 11 appearances. Vernam played well at Grimsby and has just earned himself a transfer to Burton Albion. Both suffered long injury layoffs at a point in their career where they might have been looking to break through and similarly suffered from first team managers who at the time weren't interested. I wouldn't describe either of them as a failure, unless you are referring solely to their usefulness to Derby. Back to Whittaker and it might be that his style doesn't fit the way we play and he has to go elsewhere eventually. Would be sad as I agree with you that the quality is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tiverton Ram said: I think he should be loaned to a league 1 club next season just for some extra experience. He was great last night, but a short term or a season long loan could push his development on further. I disagree. I think he's better staying at the club and slowly being nurtured into the team. I don't think he'd get the game time required at a lower level due to his lack of strength - probably a year off being ready to handle the physicality in L1/2 to get the game time required for a loan spell to be worthwhile. He needs to stay in and around the first team and develop at his own pace for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I disagree. I think he's better staying at the club and slowly being nurtured into the team. I don't think he'd get the game time required at a lower level due to his lack of strength - probably a year off being ready to handle the physicality in L1/2 to get the game time required for a loan spell to be worthwhile. He needs to stay in and around the first team and develop at his own pace for now. If we have a bench of 9 players and 5 permitted subs then keep around but if it’s 3 subs from 5 his opportunities would be very limited - a loan for the first part of the season maybe more preferable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I disagree. I think he's better staying at the club and slowly being nurtured into the team. I don't think he'd get the game time required at a lower level due to his lack of strength - probably a year off being ready to handle the physicality in L1/2 to get the game time required for a loan spell to be worthwhile. He needs to stay in and around the first team and develop at his own pace for now. I'm with you, they said the same about Max Bird "needing a loan to L1" too. No loans for Sibley or Knight either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Pre Covid we had a 7 man bench didn’t we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Sending Morgan on loan to League 1 would be like owning a Ferrari and deciding to send it to a farm to see if it had enough power to plough a field! Much better to keep it at your own Ferrari dealership (conveniently located at Moor Farm) and let your own world class technicians tinker and improve the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Carnero said: I'm with you, they said the same about Max Bird "needing a loan to L1" too. No loans for Sibley or Knight either. My model would be something like this: 16 and 17 year olds in the U18s. 18 and 19 year olds in the U23s. In and around the first team until 20. If they aren't regular squad members by that point then loans out for a couple of years. Sell/move on if still not ready to be squad members by 22/23. I think Chelsea have it pretty much spot on. It's very rare for them to loan an 18/19 year old out unless they've physically developed. It's why I'd say the likes of Buchanan, JBrown and Trialist could go out on loan, but Whittaker shouldn't. When Chelsea do loan out the younger or physically less developed players, they typically send them over to the Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Morgan is class. He was banging then in for spondon dynamos and we all knew he’d play for Derby at some point. Screenshot this. Next season he will get 5-10 goals from bench and odd starts. Once he’s got that confidence there is no looking back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said: Sending Morgan on loan to League 1 would be like owning a Ferrari and deciding to send it to a farm to see if it had enough power to plough a field! Much better to keep it at your own Ferrari dealership (conveniently located at Moor Farm) and let your own world class technicians tinker and improve the performance. and it's that mentality that contributes to players being unable to adapt to sides who play a different way. It's the reason Arsenal players were never ever ever ready for competitive football when they left Arsenal aged 23, and didn't start developing until then. Players need to play competitive football, at any level, rather than just train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said: What is a “ proper assist “ then please enlighten us ? I’m sure you’re smart enough to work out the difference between a goal made by the scorer and a goal made by the passing player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: and it's that mentality that contributes to players being unable to adapt to sides who play a different way. It's the reason Arsenal players were never ever ever ready for competitive football when they left Arsenal aged 23, and didn't start developing until then. Players need to play competitive football, at any level, rather than just train. Whilst I appreciate that point of view, arsenal have always sent vast numbers of players on loan. I can remember us alone having 3 I believe. Don’t believe it’s a relevant point of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 18 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Wasn't it just Billy the season we went up, Ned was still elsewhere (refused leave to join us?). Thats right Roy - Ned joined just in time to mastermind our 11 points. I heard it that our board refused to pay his release clause but who knows really......several years and loads of managers ago ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Thats right Roy - Ned joined just in time to mastermind our 11 points. I always thought (and with hindsight) that Billy made better decisions on his own. Probably stopped him being quite so paranoid about those around him! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, rammieib said: I’m sure you’re smart enough to work out the difference between a goal made by the scorer and a goal made by the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Just now, Reggie Greenwood said: No please explain why a nice reverse pass wasn’t a “ proper assist “ no different to CM9 to Lawrence at Sheff Wed. No need to be condescending I asked for your explanation of a proper assist as I thought it was a perfectly good one so wondered what you thought was wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Srg said: Whilst I appreciate that point of view, arsenal have always sent vast numbers of players on loan. I can remember us alone having 3 I believe. Don’t believe it’s a relevant point of reference. Barazite as an example, came to us vastly under-developed for the rigours of the game, and was (correct me if I'm wrong) about 22/23 when he arrived. I would say that any Arsenal youngster we had, was way behind where they should've been in development terms simply cos they were hoarded. Chelsea on the other hand, send their youngsters out to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: Barazite as an example, came to us vastly under-developed for the rigours of the game, and was (correct me if I'm wrong) about 22/23 when he arrived. I would say that any Arsenal youngster we had, was way behind where they should've been in development terms simply cos they were hoarded. Chelsea on the other hand, send their youngsters out to learn. Think he was 18 when signing on loan with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Think he was 18 when signing on loan with us Don't start quoting actual facts on here. What if everyone did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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