sage Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said: Yeah let’s blame the 2 people who carried us for about 2-3 months I'm not blaming them. It is their recruitment on loan and even worse permanently. We ended up changing the way we play which had a long term negative effect. The problem was and MM admitted it himself they found it difficult to get cover for Martin as most strikers knew they would be just that...cover. Now that is forgivable as a loan but they needed to solve that in the summer of 2015 having had more notice and the evidence that Best was awful and Bent didn't link play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, sage said: I'm not blaming them. It is their recruitment on loan and even worse permanently. We ended up changing the way we play which had a long term negative effect. The problem was and MM admitted it himself they found it difficult to get cover for Martin as most strikers knew they would be just that...cover. Now that is forgivable as a loan but they needed to solve that in the summer of 2015 having had more notice and the evidence that Best was awful and Bent didn't link play. We were doing fine, with Ince in the side, until all of the injuries hit all at once that season. No team would have coped with losing 6 or 7 first team players that we had to deal with. Ince and Bent carried the team from March, they didn’t cause the slump. Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinions. Will just have to agree to disagree on this occasion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Sparkle said: I did say if it was affordable to us should we take him? Still a no for me, as good as he can be he doesn’t offer the attributes we need to bring in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 2 hours ago, RYRAM said: I think Tom would kick on with a certain Mr Rodney's help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Not quite sure where the whole built the team around Ince has come from? Pretty sure the team and formation stayed pretty much the same whilst Ince was here? Maybe he was more involved, for certain people to think the team was built around him, purely because he was our most creative player so we naturally gave him the ball more. Similar to last season with Mount & Wilson, this season with Rooney, you give your better players more of the ball, that doesnt equal the team being built around them though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Coconut said: ...and then you tell me how they're in any way relevant to Derby County in 2020 under Philip Cocu? If you don't make yourself Tom Ince FC then you'll get very little out of him, as pretty much every other club aside from us and Blackpool has found out. It's been proven time, and time, and time again but people don't take any notice of that because "...look how many goals he scored here!" Yeah, great, good for him! I'm glad that all the time we spent prioritising the career of Tom Ince and getting his stats boosted so he could make yet another failed Premier League move was worth the effort. He's clearly thriving now and showing us all what a great player he really is. Surely? He's "Too good for The Championship" after all? Don't make me laugh. He's an average Championship second striker (for that's where his skill really lies, not on the wing) who needs everything built around him to perform, but unlike Chrs Martin getting the best out of him doesn't result in you getting the best out of others too. Look how many goals Jordan Rhodes scores (well, used to score), was anyone a better team for his inclusion? Nope, regardless of whatever numbers he got from an individual perspective. I know Wassall managed to get a tune out of Ince without sacrificing the rest of the squad's performances as a result, but that was a minor miracle, and it hasn't been achieved by any other manager before or since. If you want a team as good as the 2013/14 & first half of 2014/15 Derby County the you use a player like Ince sparingly, someone to supplement the rest of the squad, to mainly use as an impact sub when the main approach of passing the opposition to death with your team play isn't working. It's how we used Bamford and its how we used Ibe, both to great effect. Switch that around so you build the team's play around the player who "provides something different" and slowly slowly it'll start to go wrong. It happened here and I'd hate for it to happen aagain We're building something good here, the LAST player we need to sign is Tom Bloody Ince, and his statistics over 3 seasons ago mean diddly squat. As @sage once said "Ince, Ince will tear us apart again" Whilst I would agree with most of that my point was that if we got him as a loan and a cheap loan at that he would give us an option of scoring goals which we will certainly need currently. He would be adding his ability to our team and not having a team have to alter its behaviour/ pattern to just suit him ( we could also sign another unknown player who we do that for anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 9 hours ago, sage said: In the QPR/Wembley season we played amazing team football and continued to do so the following season until january when we brought in Bent and Ince on loan and our season fell apart. Obviously we had injuries as well, but our system of play changed to accodate 2 goalscorers who were only interested in receiving the final or penultimate pass in a move. We had some good games after but that amazing pattern of play was lost. This is why Steve Mac II was determined to bring back Martin because he was the fulcrum. We went downhill from that January 2014 transfer window. I wrote a massive post on this about 3 years ago that i keep promising myself to find it and it bump up again to motivate myself to write a sequel. Yep fair assessment at the time and for me it wasn’t so much having Bent as back up which we used because Martin got injured and Ince who would contribute goals whilst the defensive side suffered from losing multiple defensive players. The one thing I never understood was why we brought in lingard because for me he weakened us far to much. The one overriding thought was why are we not playing both Ward and Russell who both created goals scored goals and defended their full backs very well. Ince wasn’t the problem but Ince and lingard were a major problem defensively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 10 hours ago, sage said: Ince is on £30k a week. We aren't signing him. I have no idea of his current wage but stoke seem to want him gone and if we were able to have him on a loan with our contribution being only £10k a week then that is a better option than a lot of the ones we currently have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 9 hours ago, DCFC1388 said: Not quite sure where the whole built the team around Ince has come from? Pretty sure the team and formation stayed pretty much the same whilst Ince was here? Maybe he was more involved, for certain people to think the team was built around him, purely because he was our most creative player so we naturally gave him the ball more. Similar to last season with Mount & Wilson, this season with Rooney, you give your better players more of the ball, that doesnt equal the team being built around them though Yes, some getting confused and can’t seem to grasp that the team changed due to the crippling injuries, the whole spine of the team was lost. Our fortunes declined because of that and not due to the prolific Ince who not only scored goals but created them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Yes, some getting confused and can’t seem to grasp that the team changed due to the crippling injuries, the whole spine of the team was lost. Our fortunes declined because of that and not due to the prolific Ince who not only scored goals but created them too? Not getting confused. Obviously we had injuries but signing Bent instead of a target man meant we had no cover for Martin and had to change our style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, sage said: Not getting confused. Obviously we had injuries but signing Bent instead of a target man meant we had no cover for Martin and had to change our style of play. If Liverpool lost 7 key first team players to injury, things would change on the pitch, as it did for us. Ince was one of the few to shine in the injury-ravaged squad, he wasn’t the cause of us imploding ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofbuxton Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I'd love Ince back, doubt it'll happen though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTrustTheDevilInside Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Trying to get this back to a suggestion thread.... some players I’m surprised we haven’t been linked to but are seemingly available: jamal blackman daniel ayala nathan byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTrustTheDevilInside Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Someone just posted to Alan nixon about max Lowe to millwall.... surely full of poo and way out of their budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, DontTrustTheDevilInside said: Someone just posted to Alan nixon about max Lowe to millwall.... surely full of poo and way out of their budget 8 million. If they take Bennett aswell, we'll call it 5. (I was one of those with hopes for MB. Joiners was bad but the "burn" video sealed it for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 We could poss afford ince but we couldn’t run to his mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Ince creates few assists. He averages about 4 per season over the past 7 seasons. plus I can’t see MM wanting to deal with the Ince’s again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Not even an ince's wince's bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 If we have got money and need a right winger, Cocu may look at Mitchell Van Bergen. Dutch, young, from a mid sized team so small wage, loads of pace and scores 1 in 4/5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Gyrano Kerk. Not far off a goal or assist every game last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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