Coronavirus

[BIllyD]

26 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Sorry, I'm only half paying attention to this thread now and may have missed the gist of the discussion that was going on - I just picked up on what you said earlier;

 

According to the Govt link I provided, there is no evidence to suggest that having the vaccine will prevent you from passing on covid -they 'expect' it to reduce the risk but don't go as far as to say by how much (if at all). 

Therefore you must assume that anyone entering your house, whether they have been vaccinated or not present the same level of risk - and assuming you yourself have been vaccinated you have mitigated that risk massively.

Based upon other trials, most notably Israel, there is a fair degree of confidence that it will protect from passing the virus on. I'll have a look and see if I can dig it out, as I may be wrong ?

[Gritstone Ram]

So it’s now changed from USA first to EU first.

[Eddie]

42 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Sorry, I'm only half paying attention to this thread now and may have missed the gist of the discussion that was going on - I just picked up on what you said earlier;

 

According to the Govt link I provided, there is no evidence to suggest that having the vaccine will prevent you from passing on covid -they 'expect' it to reduce the risk but don't go as far as to say by how much (if at all). 

Therefore you must assume that anyone entering your house, whether they have been vaccinated or not present the same level of risk - and assuming you yourself have been vaccinated you have mitigated that risk massively.

There's a reason for this - vaccines have not been available for long.

Under 'normal' circumstances, if a new vaccine were under development, it would be in clinical trials for several years, and there would, in all likelihood, be ample opportunity to conduct tests whereby vaccinated volunteers would be infected (or attempts made to infect them) under controlled conditions. That luxury of time is just not available because everything from development through to rollout has been subject to severe time constraints.

As for my situation, I am due to have my first shot in the next two weeks. It won't change my approach one iota. I will remain 'shielding' for several weeks or months thereafter. I'm hoping for two things:

1. That a limited number of socially-distanced spectators will be permitted at cricket matches in the late spring/early summer
2. I can go on holiday to Mevagissey in July.

Personally, I don't see vaccination as carte blanche to go back to how things were 'in the before-times'. - well, not for a while anyway. I'll probably avoid crowds, pubs and concert-halls for another year or two.

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Indeed, I'm guessing you may have someone on ignore and not seeing the previous posts ?

My ignore list has just 1 on it at the moment, and it's not @G STAR RAM. ?

[BIllyD]

@maxjam

Worth a read on why we can’t count it as proven yet, but there is good reason to why we dully expect it to retard transmission by a lot.

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There's a reason for this - vaccines have not been available for long.

Under 'normal' circumstances, if a new vaccine were under development, it would be in clinical trials for several years, and there would, in all likelihood, be ample opportunity to conduct tests whereby vaccinated volunteers would be infected (or attempts made to infect them) under controlled conditions. That luxury of time is just not available because everything from development through to rollout has been subject to severe time constraints.

As for my situation, I am due to have my first shot in the next two weeks. It won't change my approach one iota. I will remain 'shielding' for several weeks or months thereafter. I'm hoping for two things:

1. That a limited number of socially-distanced spectators will be permitted at cricket matches in the late spring/early summer
2. I can go on holiday to Mevagissey in July.

Personally, I don't see vaccination as carte blanche to go back to how things were 'in the before-times'. - well, not for a while anyway. I'll probably avoid crowds, pubs and concert-halls for another year or two.

Yes I agree that we need more time and data.  

The point I was trying to make was that regardless of whether others have had the vaccine, until we know otherwise they should all be treated as though they are highly contageous.  For peace of mind the best approach would be to get vaccinated yourself and treat all others with a degree of suspicion, or not - depending upon the risk assessment of your own personal circumstances.

[BIllyD]

18 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My ignore list has just 1 on it at the moment, and it's not @G STAR RAM. ?

Fair enough, by answer was in response to a question which I knew the answer for, it just seemed easier to prove the point I was making that way.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

 

As I understand it the EU is taking legal action as they were promised vaccine .  The manufacturer said it had accepted large orders elsewhere and because the EU dithered it was a promise to do the best they could and not a guarantee.  This action they are now taking will create a massively expensive legal battle, the withholding of product in case they lose and the UK may need to restrict vaccine coming from these shores to elsewhere.

One of the staple points in this vaccine was the assurance that countries who can't afford it, particularly areas where mutations are now developing such as sub Saharan Africa would have access to this vaccine.

With the company fronting up for a legal battle, the EU behaving like a bully and us having to ensure we stockpile vaccine to head this off will these countries get access to this product - not a chance . 

The laughable thing about it is that the slowdown in vaccine production due to plant expansion was known about 2 months ago . At that point countries like Hungary were aggressively stopped by the EU bloc from looking at other avenues to minimise shortfall while they carried on flogging Frances dead horse.  Now there standing up in Brussels advising they were not aware of this problem and activating clauses to stop the movement of medicine by another route- yes medicine and creating the very same hard border they argued about for four years to prevent the flow of - unbelievably medicine.   What's next, the prevention of other drugs being made in the EU being held to ransom I suppose.  

What a poo show.

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

Looks like they've backed out of going through with the NI controls

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Looks like they've backed out of going through with the NI controls

Yes, I think the EU were originally banking on Britain breaking the GFA first, and realised that the egg they were leaving on their own face would have been difficult to wash off. Having agreed with Arlene Foster for the first time in my life, I now have to wash out my brain with soap and water.

[G STAR RAM]

@ariotofmyownhaving thrown around the accusation that people who don't agree with lockdown measures are insensitive to families of people who have died, may I have your take on this article please:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

As a father of 2 young kids its something very important to me.

 

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

@ariotofmyownhaving thrown around the accusation that people who don't agree with lockdown measures are insensitive to families of people who have died, may I have your take on this article please:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

As a father of 2 young kids its something very important to me.

 

And from the US...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/535598-las-vegas-to-push-reopening-schools-amid-surge-in-student-suicides

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

And from the US...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/535598-las-vegas-to-push-reopening-schools-amid-surge-in-student-suicides

A mate, who's 15 year old daughter is really struggling, sent me a link showing child suicides are 50% up in England.

We are not taking massive numbers but even still.

Will see if I can find the link.

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

A mate, who's 15 year old daughter is really struggling, sent me a link showing child suicides are 50% up in England.

We are not taking massive numbers but even still.

Will see if I can find the link.

Got a 18yo and a 13yo myself. 

The 18yo is starting to show the strain of being locked up 24/7.  They both have a good group of 'internet friends' that they chat and play games with but its not the same as going out with your mates and wandering around Ashby or whatever it is they do ?

[angieram]

I didn't see any discussion about this yesterday but it is something that we have all talked about in the past - the number of people working in offices who are at risk. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55843506

This is the first time I think that the Government has released these figures (after a freedom of information request). 

This paragraph is most telling - 

The data showed there were more than 500 outbreaks, or suspected outbreaks, in offices in the second half of 2020 - more than in supermarkets, construction sites, warehouses, restaurants and cafes combined.

[Sith Happens]

Just cant believe this....

Obviously innocent until proven guilty....but if guilty lock him up and throw away the key

https://news.sky.com/story/man-charged-after-suspicious-package-sent-to-vaccine-plant-12203042

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, angieram said:

I didn't see any discussion about this yesterday but it is something that we have all talked about in the past - the number of people working in offices who are at risk. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55843506

This is the first time I think that the Government has released these figures (after a freedom of information request). 

This paragraph is most telling - 

The data showed there were more than 500 outbreaks, or suspected outbreaks, in offices in the second half of 2020 - more than in supermarkets, construction sites, warehouses, restaurants and cafes combined.

Some of the comments made by the protagonists in the article are a bit strange - call centre worker Dan stated that the toilets at work are shared, people hotdesk and windows haven't been opened. 

I've been working in those conditions for nearly a year now for a multinational and didn't think anything of them at all - how can you not have shared toilets for example? And if you do hotdesk you need to sanitise the keyboard and mouse and desk before you use it?

[1of4]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

@ariotofmyownhaving thrown around the accusation that people who don't agree with lockdown measures are insensitive to families of people who have died, may I have your take on this article please:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

As a father of 2 young kids its something very important to me.

 

This is an issue that should be of concern to all of us and not just the parents of school age children.

While the government keep saying they want to see children back into school, they appear to be giving little help or added resources to many schools for this to happen. 

Getting teachers vaccinated may be a big step forward in getting schools reopen. I come into very little contact with other people due to self isolating, so I'd be happy to wait for a vaccination until all the teachers received theirs. 

[BIllyD]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

@ariotofmyownhaving thrown around the accusation that people who don't agree with lockdown measures are insensitive to families of people who have died, may I have your take on this article please:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

As a father of 2 young kids its something very important to me.

 

Nobody is arguing that the lockdown isn't haven't an impact on a lot of people. 

What is your question though, you mention that people are insensitive to the people who have died as the result of this virus when not agreeing with the lockdown, so what is your actual stance as I struggle throughout all your posts to know what that is ?

One week it's that the headlines around the NHS being over egged, then it's pubs, masks, then not seeing your mates or your mates in the NHS thinking the lockdown rules are OTT. 

What do you therefore feel is the answer out of interest ?

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

@ariotofmyownhaving thrown around the accusation that people who don't agree with lockdown measures are insensitive to families of people who have died, may I have your take on this article please:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

As a father of 2 young kids its something very important to me.

 

Well I think that proves just how sinister the government really are. Knowingly forcing unnecessary lockdowns on people just because they want control over us, the people. As you have repeatedly pointed out, of course hospitals are only as full as any other year. Free the innocent 67 million!

(So there are some major downsides to lockdowns? Really, thanks for pointing that out, I'd never realised! What I actually find insensitive to people who have lost loved ones to Covid are the continual implications that a) the government are inflicting lockdowns for some shadowy, unknown reason and/or b) that do we really know that things are not much worse than a "normal" year...can we trust what these experts are telling us, when this clickbait columnists says the opposite?)