Coronavirus

[jimmyp]

20 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

I'm torn at the moment. Like many people, this has been tough mentally for me. I've missed big birthdays and weddings due to this virus. I could understand at first why the country had a lockdown. A completely foreign virus with no expertise on how to deal with it. It was the right decision. Now though, I feel like the government are making this more convoluted the longer time passes. 

With all the data I've seen, I think we need to admit that this is no worse than the normal flu. Unfortunately many people over 80 and people with health problems die of flu every year, it's the same with this. The reason government are doing this is to protect the NHS they say. When has the NHS ever been seriously quiet around winter? The fact is the NHS hospitals are overran every winter. If the people in power actually invested money properly in the health service, I doubt we would even need to over protect it like we are now.

We can't keep living like this. I'm a fit and healthy adult, I can carry on helping the most vulnerable in my family. Where's the plan to bring us back to a form of normal? Why do we keep looking backwards when everyone outside the UK seems to be looking forwards. It's a very negative mindset and people are starting to get fed up and break the rules. The negativity particularly by the politicians and scientists is not helping us. I understand the virus is horrible and is killing people. But so is cancer, so is heart disease, so is strokes. We carry on fighting it. 

I’m also finding the whole situation draining.

Could you point me in the direction of your data that leads you to think this is no worse than the normal flu please?

Im finding it quite hard to find peer reviewed papers that come to this conclusion.

Also when you say every winter hospitals are overran, what do you mean? Do they normally cancel millions of operations outside of flu season? Or even in flu season? 

I have also noticed some hospitals have started to operate once again on a emergency surgery only basis, is this normal procedure during a normal flu season?

 

 

[ariotofmyown]

27 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

So the September modelling that certain people scoffed at, which said we were heading towards cases doubling every 7 days by mid-October did prove to be inaccurate.

But it's now doubling every 9 days

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54723962

Maths says that is more than a million infections a day by the end of November if we don't take stronger action

 

 

 

I think we've all had enough of listening to experts, when what they are saying is different to what we want to believe.

[Eddie]

Just now, jimmyp said:

I’m also finding the whole situation draining.

Could you point me in the direction of your data that leads you to think this is no worse than the normal flu please?

Im finding it quite hard to find peer reviewed papers that come to this conclusion.

Also when you say every winter hospitals are overran? Do they normally cancel millions of operations outside of flu season? Or even in flu season? 

I have also noticed some hospitals have started to operate once again on a emergency surgery only basis, is this normal procedure during a normal flu season?

 

 

It's quite clear that @SouthStandDan plucked that little gem out of thin air. The ONS recently published a study of COVID-19 v influenza and pneumonia which concluded that already this year, the number of COVID-19 deaths exceeds every single year for influenza and pneumonia deaths over each of the last fifty years - and we haven't had a winter yet for comparison (COVID-19 deaths didn't really start to kick off until March).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsduetocoronaviruscovid19comparedwithdeathsfrominfluenzaandpneumoniaenglandandwales/deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31august2020

There's loads of charts and tables in there - but I bet you @TexasRamdoesn't reproduce any of those.

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It's quite clear that @SouthStandDan plucked that little gem out of thin air. The ONS recently published a study of COVID-19 v influenza and pneumonia which concluded that already this year, the number of COVID-19 deaths exceeds every single year for influenza and pneumonia deaths over each of the last fifty years - and we haven't had a winter yet for comparison (COVID-19 deaths didn't really start to kick off until March).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsduetocoronaviruscovid19comparedwithdeathsfrominfluenzaandpneumoniaenglandandwales/deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31august2020

There's loads of charts and tables in there - but I bet you @TexasRamdoesn't reproduce any of those.

Another way of putting it is that from January to August, influenza killed 394 in the UK. Covid-19 has killed 779 since the start of the week. 

[jimmyp]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think we've all had enough of listening to experts, when what they are saying is different to what we want to believe.

Unfortunately I think we have to accept a lot of so-called experts have got a lot of so called science wrong, this has done a lot of damage to public confidence.

We have experienced a massive rush for information on Covid-19, more research has been published by main stream media than ever before. Unfortunately most of it hadn’t been peer reviewed and subsequently turned out to be absolute rubbish.

This has lead to people dismissing the proven science and research, which has in turn lead to people deciding Covid-19 isn’t actually that bad. 

We are in a really dangerous position because so many aren’t taking this situation seriously.

As a collective we need to stop f#*&ing around.

 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, jimmyp said:

Unfortunately I think we have to accept a lot of so-called experts have got a lot of so called science wrong, this has done a lot of damage to public confidence.

I can accept following the science going wrong from time to time. I don't hold faith in not following the science, even when you get it right. A bad decision taken in good faith is preferable to a lucky guess every time.

[Gone]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It's quite clear that @SouthStandDan plucked that little gem out of thin air. The ONS recently published a study of COVID-19 v influenza and pneumonia which concluded that already this year, the number of COVID-19 deaths exceeds every single year for influenza and pneumonia deaths over each of the last fifty years - and we haven't had a winter yet for comparison (COVID-19 deaths didn't really start to kick off until March).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsduetocoronaviruscovid19comparedwithdeathsfrominfluenzaandpneumoniaenglandandwales/deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31august2020

There's loads of charts and tables in there - but I bet you @TexasRamdoesn't reproduce any of those.

Thought you’d blocked me? Now you want my data, take take take @Eddie????

[Albert]

Just now, jimmyp said:

Unfortunately I think we have to accept a lot of so-called experts have got a lot of so called science wrong, this has done a lot of damage to public confidence.

We have experienced a massive rush for information on Covid-19, more research has been published by main stream media than ever before. Unfortunately most of it hadn’t been peer reviewed and subsequently turned out to be absolute rubbish.

This has lead to people dismissing the proven science and research, which has in turn lead to people deciding Covid-19 isn’t actually that bad. 

We are in a really dangerous position because so many aren’t taking this situation seriously.

As a collective we need to stop f#*&ing around.

 

The issue isn't what researchers have been doing though, it's people looking from the outside in, pretending they understand the process, and picking and choosing what they like from the discussion. It also means that a lot of fringe, but convenient positions have received more attention than they normally would, and with the UK's overall scattered approach, this has lead to a great deal of confusion. 

It's not like this globally, however. Countries where they've avoided politicising the issue have generally done quite well, with only small fringe elements. That said, even here in Australia, which has had a great deal of success in controlling the virus, the Murdoch press has been using it as a stick to beat Labor state governments with. I worry that those actions may lead to a similar situation to the UK eventually. 

[alexxxxx]

37 minutes ago, Albert said:

Stronger and better enforced lockdowns would work quicker, but let's be honest, the UK is in all kinds of trouble on this now. Even a strong lockdown now would still see a further 7-14 days of similar growth before the effects are seen, which are current rates isn't great. 

Action was needed a month ago, and it could have been shorter, and more effective. With this lack of leadership, any action will likely go well past Christmas at this point. 

Let's be realistic, Victoria ended its lockdown a few days back after 142 days with considerably lower 'base load' than the UK.

There is absolutely no chance that anything but an almost indefinite lockdown can control the virus to incredibly low/zero levels at this stage. 

Without a vaccine we will have literally another 100k+ deaths on the way without locking everyone up for a year. 

Retrospectively the government needed to carry on the summer lockdown til end of July when track and trace actually could do their job. 

[Stive Pesley]

RIP Bobby Ball 

[jimmyp]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

I can accept following the science going wrong from time to time. I don't hold faith in not following the science, even when you get it right. A bad decision taken in good faith is preferable to a lucky guess every time.

Yes unfortunately though when someone who doesn’t have much knowledge about science can find fault in the science they then start to doubt and become skeptical of all science. 

The whole thing about ibruprofen being bad if you had Covid has been proven incorrect, yet even the hospital trusts acted on the unproven data, it was all over the news.  The original research on ibruprofen was done by two guys and had never been peer reviewed, they didn’t even have enough data to make the claim, yet health authorities all over the world acted upon their limited data and told everyone to stop using it. Now we have the research and know it is fine to take for Covid. It makes your average joe doubt the science.

People should very definitely be paying attention to the sage scientists and ignoring lots of the absolute rubbish in main stream media.

 

[Gone]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah, I think they should sack everyone who is not a front line medical employee. Managers, admin, receptionists, cleaners etc.

This is the real thing we should be focusing on, especially as those pesky government scienctists  turned out to be right afterall about the 2nd wave.

Ah well, all those freedom loving columnists didn't do any real damage did they? Apart from convince people that the restrictions were pointless so the virus could spread better. Thank god 1 in 40 people in Yorkshire have got the virus now because...erm..."herd immunity". I'm a semi-expert on it because I believe in it, basically as it means we can just revert to normal.

It's about time we had another Great Barrington declaration funded by US right wing thinktanks. Lots of people will sign up that they agree with it because that is proper science. 

@Albert@GboroRam And another one....and we think austerity and underfunding is hurting the NHS? Maybe the industry that’s been created on that back of the new WOKE generation has a little to answer for, don’t you think?

[Gone]

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Such roles are important to get the most out of staff such as nurses and midwives. Welcome to the modern World. 

No they’re not. It’s not the modern world it’s Wokism at is finest in play. Not needed at all

 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Based on? Also, picking points at random then painting them with an agenda that you're literally admitting in the above quote, ie to paint their management as appalling, is by definition having an agenda

Ok I have an agenda about the way our National health service is run. Yes I do, and feel for those on the front line working in it. 

 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

So you concede you have no real argument on that point then. Cool

No I don’t, I just don’t need justify or build on my argument that there is enough money in the NHS, it’s just poorly managed with a lost of waste.  

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

@Albert@GboroRam And another one....and we think austerity and underfunding is hurting the NHS? Maybe the industry that’s been created on that back of the new WOKE generation has a little to answer for, don’t you think?

Depends how important diversity and inclusion is in your opinion. I'm sure if you ignore it, it'll cost a lot more than £73,664 per year - just in the cost of disillusionment within minorities in the organisation. It's a director level role - I'm absolutely sure none of my directors in my company are on less than 6 figures.

[Gone]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

just in the cost of disillusionment within minorities in the organisation

Haha that’s a weak argument. You think that happens in a organisation like the NHS? Probably the most diverse and inclusive organisation in the world? It really needs that position. Dear god, the world we are creating is frightening 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

Thought you’d blocked me? Now you want my data, take take take @Eddie????

I tend to put people to sleep for a couple of weeks, then bring them round again for a while when I need a bit of comic relief.

[Gone]

Just now, Eddie said:

I tend to put people to sleep for a couple of weeks, then bring them round again for a while when I need a bit of comic relief.

I’m glad I can provide you with some fun and laughter in these dark times

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I’m glad I can provide you with some fun and laughter in these dark times

Speaking of dark times, I wonder how Eddie changes his lightbulbs when he is under house arrest?

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

No they’re not. It’s not the modern world it’s Wokism at is finest in play. Not needed at all

Can someone please explain, for the benefit of us oldies, just what 'wokism' is? I do a lot of cooking, so I assume that it's something to do with round-bottomed frying pans. 'Ism' tends to be a suffix which means 'pertaining to' or 'imitating', so is it perhaps something to do with sauté pans?

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Can someone please explain, for the benefit of us oldies, just what 'wokism' is? I do a lot of cooking, so I assume that it's something to do with round-bottomed frying pans. 'Ism' tends to be a suffix which means 'pertaining to' or 'imitating', so is it perhaps something to do with sauté pans?

I just made it up on the back of the Woke BS we see all around us today. You can use it, I won’t come after you on the grounds of plagiarism......or will I ?