Coronavirus

[jimmyp]

4 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

No idea, so I’ll throw it back. How long do we have to hide in our houses before we can return to some sort of reality? I haven’t heard of one strategy on how we will return to normal? Apparently I’m stupid, but I’m yet to hear a solid argument on how and when we can live a life rather than try and just survive. 

I don’t think your stupid.

We can start living a more normal life when we have a fully working test and trace and we manage to keep the r below 1. 

 

[Andicis]

Just now, jimmyp said:

I don’t think your stupid.

We can start living a more normal life when we have a fully working test and trace and we manage to keep the r below 1. 

 

So never, then? That's not happening any time soon. 

[Albert]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Time to make yet another huge mistake I guess. If the Government are doing this, they better ensure they fund the businesses they're ducking over enough to make sure they don't have to shut down permanently. But I bet they don't. Is the NHS full? No. So why are we shutting down? 

It is a huge mistake, that it's been done this late. A lot of people have been harmed, and the lockdown will need to be harsher and longer to compensate. What a shambles. 

As to the NHS, it's pushed to its limit in the best of years, are you seriously suggesting that it's not under strain right now, and won't be in the coming weeks? We're seeing exponential growth. 

14 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Not to disrespect the loss of life, but 669 isn't that high for the whole of the UK. Is that based on last year or an average over a few years? You can't measure how many will die due to the mental health crisis or from the economic devastation. They're just as important. Or the people don't getting screened for cancer. This disease shouldn't take precedent over everything. 

A 6.8% increase on the 5 year average is pretty significant, particularly given how much worse it is getting week on week. 

Excess deaths can actually be used to measure deaths from other causes too, and I agree they're just as important, which is why it's such a shambles that the UK is waiting this long to lockdown. Those deaths will be caused by the impacts that are to follow, and all of that could have been prevented by a short sharp lockdown when it was recommended initially. Instead, the UK has faffed about, and a longer, harsher lockdown will be required. Without one, even more damage than that will be caused, and more jobs lost. 

As noted previously, the cancer screenings are being prevented by the load on the NHS, which means that by not controlling the virus, those screenings are being prevented. The only way to get those screenings back is to drive the numbers back down. 

14 minutes ago, Andicis said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-first-covid-vaccines-likely-to-be-imperfect-and-might-not-prevent-infection-says-taskforce-boss-12116593

Ah yes, Sky, the font of all unbiased opinion pieces. 

Also, what the piece is pointing out is uncertainty over efficacy, not a finding of efficacy. 

14 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Do you consider the USA as having controlled the virus? (Of course you don't) The US economy seems to have bounced back pretty well from opening up. 

The US's economic numbers aren't great outside of the stock market (good ol' disaster capitalists), and their cases are currently heading up at quite a rate. As discussed, the worst economic hit comes as the cases rocket up, and we won't see the full picture there for a while. 

[Mafiabob]

Aged well this 

[Albert]

8 minutes ago, Andicis said:

There isn't an exit strategy. They have no idea. It's indefinite imprisonment. 

There's no exit strategy because this has all been delayed far too long. The fire has burned long enough to damage the structure, and the repair work is going to cost the country far more now. They bottled it by being indecisive, and this is the situation we're left with. 

[jimmyp]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

So never, then? That's not happening any time soon. 

No not never. 

I agree it’s probably not anytime soon though. 

I also agree with you that the government should help fund more businesses. 

Whichever route we take it’s going to result in a very bad end scenario for masses of people.

 

[Andicis]

Just now, Albert said:

It is a huge mistake, that it's been done this late. A lot of people have been harmed, and the lockdown will need to be harsher and longer to compensate. What a shambles. 

As to the NHS, it's pushed to its limit in the best of years, are you seriously suggesting that it's not under strain right now, and won't be in the coming weeks? We're seeing exponential growth. 

We are not seeing exponential growth. This is untrue. 

 

1 minute ago, Albert said:

A 6.8% increase on the 5 year average is pretty significant, particularly given how much worse it is getting week on week. 

Excess deaths can actually be used to measure deaths from other causes too, and I agree they're just as important, which is why it's such a shambles that the UK is waiting this long to lockdown. Those deaths will be caused by the impacts that are to follow, and all of that could have been prevented by a short sharp lockdown when it was recommended initially. Instead, the UK has faffed about, and a longer, harsher lockdown will be required. Without one, even more damage than that will be caused, and more jobs lost. 

As noted previously, the cancer screenings are being prevented by the load on the NHS, which means that by not controlling the virus, those screenings are being prevented. The only way to get those screenings back is to drive the numbers back down. 

Like you said, excess deaths is all encompassing. Many probably from cancer and suicide due to lockdown and inability to access doctors. Locking down harder is just going to create more than that. Coronavirus deaths are not more important than **everything** else, so we should stop treating it as such. You're advocating for ruining my generation's chances. 

 

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

Ah yes, Sky, the font of all unbiased opinion pieces. 

Also, what the piece is pointing out is uncertainty over efficacy, not a finding of efficacy

Jog on.

 

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

The US's economic numbers aren't great outside of the stock market (good ol' disaster capitalists), and their cases are currently heading up at quite a rate. As discussed, the worst economic hit comes as the cases rocket up, and we won't see the full picture there for a while. 

Ah yes, the 33% per capita growth this quarter is shocking. They've bounced back hugely, regardless of how you want to spin it. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

There's no exit strategy because this has all been delayed far too long. The fire has burned long enough to damage the structure, and the repair work is going to cost the country far more now. They bottled it by being indecisive, and this is the situation we're left with. 

You're not left with anything, you live in Australia. No, it has not been delayed too long. Locking down now is just going to compile our problems and make them worse. They introduced their tier system, and then don't even give it chance to work anyway. Lockdown is not the answer to everything, regardless of what you think Albert. 

 

2 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

No not never. 

I agree it’s probably not anytime soon though. 

I also agree with you that the government should help fund more businesses. 

Whichever route we take it’s going to result in a very bad end scenario for masses of people

I personally fail to see how the Government can commit to that. The solution should not be worse than the problem. They've had their chance, time to unlock. 

[jimmyp]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

You're not left with anything, you live in Australia. No, it has not been delayed too long. Locking down now is just going to compile our problems and make them worse. They introduced their tier system, and then don't even give it chance to work anyway. Lockdown is not the answer to everything, regardless of what you think Albert. 

 

I personally fail to see how the Government can commit to that. The solution should not be worse than the problem. They've had their chance, time to unlock. 

Commit to the funding? They are, they need to hand out more money though if they want compliance.

They don’t really have a choice if we want to keep the NHS in its current format.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

6 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Aged well this 

 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, jimmyp said:

Commit to the funding? They are, they need to hand out more money though if they want compliance.

They don’t really have a choice if we want to keep the NHS in its current format.

To lockdown. 

[jimmyp]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

To lockdown. 

 If they want to keep the NHS in its current format, as things currently stand they will be left with no choice but to continue with lockdowns in some kind of capacity. 

Again I agree that it’s going to have a horrific impact on millions of people. 

 

[Andicis]

Just now, jimmyp said:

 If they want to keep the NHS in its current format, as things currently stand they will be left with no choice but to continue with lockdowns in some kind of capacity. 

Again I agree that it’s going to have a horrific impact on millions of people. 

 

The current format, you mean not helping anyone with cancer or other operations and purely tunneling in on coronavirus? 

[jimmyp]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The current format, you mean not helping anyone with cancer or other operations and purely tunneling in on coronavirus? 

Yep even in just that guise it’s not sustainable without a massive increase in budget and major redirection of medical services, as the r rate and infection rate currently stands.

[alexxxxx]

30 minutes ago, Albert said:

There's no exit strategy because this has all been delayed far too long. The fire has burned long enough to damage the structure, and the repair work is going to cost the country far more now. They bottled it by being indecisive, and this is the situation we're left with. 

There is literally no exit strategy. It's got nothing to do with delays.

Lockdown for 10months which is how long it will take to eradicate in UK, and a major change to how we manage freight would be needed. 

We'd have absolutely nothing left, we'd all be out of work and the social cost would be enormous.

The government has had some huge failures (not closing borders at all/early enough, initial restrictions too late, sending covid patients to care homes, ppe fiascos, eat out to help outs, encouraging foreign holidays, university first years in halls, confusing rules. 

Eradication will never happen. If Aus and NZ if they want to stay covid free won't be opening their borders for many years to come. 

The whole thing continues to ruin everything I enjoy and my lifestyle has been turned upside down. Another year of being single, working from my bedroom (if I still have a job) and watching TV, never able to see friends or family is a poo prospect. 

[Marriot Ram99]

I'm at the stage now as bad as it stands where I'm becoming apathetic to it all and am starting to turn a blind eye to it all. Until we get a vaccine which could be duck knows how long to wait for we will be trapped with this situation. Im going to be disgusted if in 6 months time theres still locks downs and major restrictions, there's only so long people and the economy will put up with it. 

[Marriot Ram99]

As harsh as it sounds I don't think it's the government responsibility to protect anyone, it should be individual responsibility and that might end badly but atleast people will then have agency in their lives. As it is we are all slaves to state control and a virus that is only in our country because of such great incompetence and complacency from the government in the first place now dictates our lives. Why should the younger generations suffer due to government incompetences? 

I also want more transparency from the government none of this it will be gone by Christmas baalocks. Cold hard truths and an exit strategy. 

[jimmyp]

35 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

There is literally no exit strategy. It's got nothing to do with delays.

Lockdown for 10months which is how long it will take to eradicate in UK, and a major change to how we manage freight would be needed. 

We'd have absolutely nothing left, we'd all be out of work and the social cost would be enormous.

The government has had some huge failures (not closing borders at all/early enough, initial restrictions too late, sending covid patients to care homes, ppe fiascos, eat out to help outs, encouraging foreign holidays, university first years in halls, confusing rules. 

Eradication will never happen. If Aus and NZ if they want to stay covid free won't be opening their borders for many years to come. 

The whole thing continues to ruin everything I enjoy and my lifestyle has been turned upside down. Another year of being single, working from my bedroom (if I still have a job) and watching TV, never able to see friends or family is a poo prospect. 

We have to get the r rate down. We need as a nation to be more compliant with social distancing and mask wearing etc. It’s not a normal way of life but it’s much better than kicking the so called can down the road with multiple lockdowns. 

We also need track and trace to up its game and the government to hand out even more money. 

Even with social distancing mask wearing etc we will still need circuit breakers, heavier restrictions etc on occasion until we have a vaccine or reach some level of immunity (if it exists on a long enough basis).

It is a poo prospect. I’m with you on finding it very hard. Time will eventually be a healer though for most of us. 

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

We’ve had 50k with my apparent  wacky ideas (recorded as covid related) please tell me how many you’re cool with, with the current rules ( please include all deaths related too, loss of income, loneliness, depression  and all other indirect causes)......over to you pumpkin 

Your posts for the last few weeks were ridiculing the predictions of how bad things might get. Turns out you were totally wrong.

You said earlier that we shouldn't have lockdowned in March. Did you want 1000s more to die? Was 50k not enough? Did you want all nurses to die? I'm not sure I've seen anyone say we shouldn't have lockdown in March. I'm sure you were telling everyone to get out there, there is nothing to worry about, as the death toll rocketed.

The point of the lockdown was to bring infections down and put the things in place needed to reopen safely. All that happened was loads of companies were given billions to waste. This next lockdown will bring infections down whilst the government screw up again. That's why we needed an inquiry.

The regime in charge is leading the UK down a path where most of us will never see it recover from. Cronyism. Corruption. Lies.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, alexxxxx said:

Lockdown for 10months which is how long it will take to eradicate in UK, and a major change to how we manage freight would be needed. 

If the disease is not transmitted, either it or the victim dies. By all accounts, it doesn't remain dormant, nor does it sit around in the environment for weeks waiting for the next victim. Stop the transmission, you stop the pandemic.

A full and total 3 week lockdown where the only people working are food workers, transport and utility workers and the emergency services would see a reduction of the contagion to a point where track, trace and isolate would become effective. No mixing of households, no pubs, only food shopping - and everyone wearing masks at all times when outside their own homes.

Half measures don't work, because there are always people who think that the rules don't apply to them. A lot of people.

I realise that there is not a cat in hell's chance of what I am suggesting as a possible solution to 'get the numbers down' ever coming to pass - but it's how China managed it. I also realise that there is no way that such a drastic 'scorched earth' policy would ever be implemented - or accepted - here, at least for a while.

If - and it's a big if - no vaccine is found, and if you can catch this disease repeatedly (the common cold is a coronavirus), kiss goodbye to having a life expectancy of 80+ years.