v Sheffield Wednesday (A) - Matchday Thread

[Curtains]

Let’s be right about it we won the game first half .

2nd half wasn’t that great. .

Chris Martin and Lawrence were outstanding as were Bird and Knight first half. 
 

Sheffield were very poor first half. 
 

PS Forsyth miles better than Lowe. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

Why does every matchday thread deteriorate into petty squabbles on the Sunday? Is it something to do with hangovers? 

I'm off to the politics thread for a bit less willy waving....?

[Millenniumram]

37 minutes ago, Archied said:

Your opinion is valid as are all ,I think your talking crap

good to know you think I’m ahead,

 

That’s not what you were saying yesterday...

I don’t remotely think you’re ahead, just rather not continue to have a meaningless argument in a thread that should be mainly full of positives from a simply brilliant first half. It’s clear from your recent posts that you’re on here starting arguments with pretty much anyone you come across, and I don’t want to litter the forum with such nonsense.

[Rev]

4 hours ago, Carnero said:

Nope, testicles.

Hangunders?

[JoeDerby]

57 minutes ago, Srg said:

Problem is, we don't have the squad to press very high. We are painfully slow pretty much across the board. Makes a press really difficult to execute to any great level.

Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes, Knight, Lawrence are all capable of a press, only really Martin that you'd say isn't the best player to press but he didn't do a bad job on Saturday. 

To press successfully, you don't need to be a super fast player. It's doing it as a unit that makes it so effective. 

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes, Knight, Lawrence are all capable of a press, only really Martin that you'd say isn't the best player to press but he didn't do a bad job on Saturday. 

To press successfully, you don't need to be a super fast player. It's doing it as a unit that makes it so effective. 

How often do they play together? They don't. 

You also need a backline with some pace and comfort to step up on the ball - we don't have that either.

[JoeDerby]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

How often do they play together? They don't. 

You also need a backline with some pace and comfort to step up on the ball - we don't have that either.

 

All of our players are capable of pressing, it's how the manager sets the team up that makes the difference. perfect example was Saturday. First half press, second half we sat in.

I don't agree that you need a fast defence to press high. It's more a positional thing than pace. 

and by the way, I'm not saying that we should constantly press high up the field but it can be very effective when done at the right times. under Lampard we did it very effectively. West Brom away, Middlesbrough away the big stand outs.

[Srg]

Just now, JoeDerby said:

 

All of our players are capable of pressing, it's how the manager sets the team up that makes the difference. perfect example was Saturday. First half press, second half we sat in.

I don't agree that you need a fast defence to press high. It's more a positional thing than pace. 

and by the way, I'm not saying that we should constantly press high up the field but it can be very effective when done at the right times. under Lampard we did it very effectively. West Brom away, Middlesbrough away the big stand outs.

I think Cocu knows we need it, hence he's tried to get Wisdom central to leave out Davies. Some of the line-ups we've put out recently are some of the slowest teams I've ever seen at Pride Park. With a backline of Wisdom, Davies, Clarke and Forsyth, and with Shinnie next to Bird and Rooney behind Martin, it's painful.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, JoeDerby said:

Absolutely, this is why it has to be done aggressively, at the right times. Against good possession based teams, you get your best opportunities pinching the ball higher up the pitch. When you let them have the ball for long periods, it comes near on impossible to get out and make your own chances, as we've seen in nearly all of our away games before Christmas.

 

Spot on mate , it makes me laugh how many say don’t play out from the back as we are being pressed when actually the whole point is to bring them on to us and create space and gaps,,,,,,it’s all about getting it right with shape , movement off the ball and decision making 

for me the last few weeks on here have been hard to read some really posts as for a while in my opinion the performances have shown us starting to get better at it with midfielders dropping in and making angles for the man on the ball ,we may not have quite got the result we deserved in some games but it’s a while since I’ve been frustrated as hell watching us and a while since I thought we are not even in the game with no chance and creating nothing 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, JoeDerby said:

Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes, Knight, Lawrence are all capable of a press, only really Martin that you'd say isn't the best player to press but he didn't do a bad job on Saturday. 

To press successfully, you don't need to be a super fast player. It's doing it as a unit that makes it so effective. 

Again spot on ,it’s not just about pressing the ball but also pressing the players giving the man on the ball options , more about communication than pace but pace helps for sure

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

How often do they play together? They don't. 

You also need a backline with some pace and comfort to step up on the ball - we don't have that either.

Yep pace at the back helps , we not to poorly off at full back for reasonable pace just centre half 

[Archied]

51 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

 

All of our players are capable of pressing, it's how the manager sets the team up that makes the difference. perfect example was Saturday. First half press, second half we sat in.

I don't agree that you need a fast defence to press high. It's more a positional thing than pace. 

and by the way, I'm not saying that we should constantly press high up the field but it can be very effective when done at the right times. under Lampard we did it very effectively. West Brom away, Middlesbrough away the big stand outs.

Again spot on , you have to mix it up

[Srg]

Just now, Archied said:

Yep pace at the back helps , we not to poorly off at full back for reasonable pace just centre half 

I agree, when they're playing. I've said previously, but Cocu seems to be having to juggle a difficult trade off currently of having a better ability to play out from the back and create more, or being more solid defensively, particularly from crosses. We've struggled to find a balance of doing both to any great level in the same match. For what it's worth, I think my first choice given what we have available would be Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke and Forsyth.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

That’s not what you were saying yesterday...

I don’t remotely think you’re ahead, just rather not continue to have a meaningless argument in a thread that should be mainly full of positives from a simply brilliant first half. It’s clear from your recent posts that you’re on here starting arguments with pretty much anyone you come across, and I don’t want to litter the forum with such nonsense.

Right one final knock to see if anybody is in 

I pulled you on your negative comment regards cocu being negative and its part of a myth being propagated the he is a negative manager,

WHY?

i think ( opinion) the sub was the right move at the time ,

WHY

with the best will in the world it’s very hard for players to not slip into a mindset that the game is won after that first half and half time score line,not on purpose but it can creep in,

they came out with a far more aggressive mindset than us and we could have very easily let it slip ,cocu saw this and put fresh legs and minds out there with the instruction to get out there ,battle and make sure we see this win through ,yep could have gone wrong but just as easily could have gone wrong not making the changes but each sub had something to live up to if are hungry enough to be fighting for starting places.

if Mac 1 had another string to his bow and been able to close out some games with ugly grit and determination when needed he would have got us up ,it’s a quality is needed in teams at the right time and place

[Archied]

16 minutes ago, Srg said:

I agree, when they're playing. I've said previously, but Cocu seems to be having to juggle a difficult trade off currently of having a better ability to play out from the back and create more, or being more solid defensively, particularly from crosses. We've struggled to find a balance of doing both to any great level in the same match. For what it's worth, I think my first choice given what we have available would be Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke and Forsyth.

Yep that’s my back four pick at the mo but I’m also ok with cocu mixing it up a bit if he feels certain combos are better for certain games or form and injury nudge things 

[Archied]

Also don’t think Bogle losing his place to wizzy recently In some games has done the lad any harm ,looks sharper and more focused to me 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Right one final knock to see if anybody is in 

I pulled you on your negative comment regards cocu being negative and its part of a myth being propagated the he is a negative manager,

WHY?

i think ( opinion) the sub was the right move at the time ,

WHY

with the best will in the world it’s very hard for players to not slip into a mindset that the game is won after that first half and half time score line,not on purpose but it can creep in,

they came out with a far more aggressive mindset than us and we could have very easily let it slip ,cocu saw this and put fresh legs and minds out there with the instruction to get out there ,battle and make sure we see this win through ,yep could have gone wrong but just as easily could have gone wrong not making the changes but each sub had something to live up to if are hungry enough to be fighting for starting places.

if Mac 1 had another string to his bow and been able to close out some games with ugly grit and determination when needed he would have got us up ,it’s a quality is needed in teams at the right time and place

I appreciate what you were saying but we finished third in his first season and won games home and away with a squad that cost thirty quid to assemble so shteve had a fair idea of the principles of the beautiful game.

Cocus getting better,the squads improving too but for various reasons,some of his own making,it's took 3 quarters of the season to get here to 12th place.....Mac simply did a better job in my opinion.

that's not to say cocu won't be successful with his next season now he knows English football better and can develop the squad further and I think he will do a good job.

I'm pleased with the progress now and I love seeing us play this style of football again.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

If Mac 1 had another string to his bow and been able to close out some games with ugly grit and determination when needed he would have got us up ,it’s a quality is needed in teams at the right time and place

Cant think of hardly any games that we threw away under Mac.

Our problem was when we came up against teams that sat back and we couldn't break down.

When we took the lead against teams and they had to come out and attack us, they generally ended up getting spanked.

 

[B4ev6is]

For me we kepted shape well on saturday chris martin holds the and always looking for a clever pass to waghorn for secound goal and In 2nd we just hang in there for first 15 to 20 mins and we did this apart from dean windass. But whole the defamce was rock solid.

[SKRam]

Had a heavy week training last week and today. I didn’t even get a prediction in, I wouldn’t quite have predicted that anyway. Turned my phone on at  6 30 Sat eve, what a wonderful surprise!  So another catch up read of the posts, always entertaining, love this forum, genuinely. Well managed with swearing to a minimum especially compared to the snippets we read on others.  
3pts from two away which is better than two draws so we could have gone unbeaten and had one fewer points. See, Happy Clappers always find a way. ?

Booked the day off Thurs, which shall be known as Wayne Rooney Day, for 24 hours anyway. 
Right, no work tomorrow so some fine ales to celebrate this evening, the rise and rise of Philip Cocu’s Derby County. And I shall still not rule out that sixth spot..... so there, now everyone wash your hands please, and sneeze in to the pit of your elbow..... thank you.