v Luton Town (A) - Matchday Thread

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Given time I believe so. Things were starting to improve. We snatched a last minute away at Wigan. We dominated the game vs Palace and won. We then showed character to fight back from a goal down on two occasions to earn the draw. The quality of performance dipped against Northampton when the team selection was short on match fitness/experience Then for the first 70 minutes against Luton it only looked like one team would win.

Was that Luton?

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Was that Luton?

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not...
They only had 3 shots (1 maybe 2 on target?) before we scored from our 12th effort.

[LittleEatonRam]

42 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

That's the Derby way.

Anyone recall the season that Crystal Palace hadn't won at home at all then the Rams rocked up for the last game of the season?

Yep. I think that was the season we had Lars Bohinen? Remember thinking before the game that we would lose it because that is typical Derby. And so it proved.

[LittleEatonRam]

1 hour ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

 

Can't keep the bloke out of the limelight when things are going well. How many fan forums last season? I lost count.

Now when it's awful, when we've plunged to depths this season we never thought we would, now it's really tough and now we need to know what's going on more than ever. He is absolutely nowhere to be seen.

 

I've said the same on a different thread. He loves the media attention, revels in it. Think back to when we were splashing money out on Johnson, Butterfield etc. He's there in the contract signing photos, basking in it.

That's what I think the Lampard/Rooney stuff is about: he can't resist the chance to get himself in the national media by signing them up.

I'll reiterate that I don't begrudge it him in a way - it's his money and all - but you can't just hide when things get tough.

[AndyinLiverpool]

11 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Yep. I think that was the season we had Lars Bohinen? Remember thinking before the game that we would lose it because that is typical Derby. And so it proved.

It was clear for weeks leading up to that game that we would hand them 3 points

[ariotofmyown]

15 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It was clear for weeks leading up to that game that we would hand them 3 points

It was Mel's fault. Or Lawrence. Not Keogh's though anymore.

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I agree Wisdom needs to stay, but I would move him across to full back and put Davies back in. Clarke looks more assured with Davies at the side of him and I have been pleasantly surprised by Wisdom's forward passing when playing at full back.

I love Bogle's attacking instinct but this season it is becoming increasingly apparent how much Keogh covered for him defensively last season. 

We also need to think that we have Malone returning at left back for a minimum of three matches (probably more.) He is such a liability defensively we need the rest of that unit to be really solid.

At Left Back I'd play Forsyth and Myself over Scott Malone.

[rammieib]

37 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Yep. I think that was the season we had Lars Bohinen? Remember thinking before the game that we would lose it because that is typical Derby. And so it proved.

Didn't we lose that game 2-1 with Bohinen scoring - but yes I agree with your point - typical Derby.

[rammieib]

41 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not...
They only had 3 shots (1 maybe 2 on target?) before we scored from our 12th effort.

The first half was just awful from both teams - their tricky winger couldn't cross a ball which helped.

First 20 minutes of the second half was all Derby. We absolutely should have hammered home the win.

Last 20 defensively was shambolic - a corner with no-one on the near post (Lawrence was supposed to be doing that job), a corner which was so soft it was embarrassing (But when Matt Clarke is the only player with any presence, what else do we expect) and the when a defender who can't clear a ball with his Left Foot without shanking it into his own net … three absolutely awful moments of defending thus giving us entirely what we deserved.

[rynny]

1 hour ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Not one word off a player after the game last night either. Cowards

 

 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

3 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

 

I don't mean hiding behind a tweet.  I mean actually coming out for an interview.

[nottingram]

4 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

I don't mean hiding behind a tweet.  I mean actually coming out for an interview.

What would you like them to say?

[LazloW]

It’s all got a bit (melo)dramatic again hasn’t it?

We will play badly and lose games of football.  All teams do.  We are not very good this season, particularly away from home.  People know this. So losing away to Luton, while very disappointing, should not have come as a massive surprise. 

I’ve said before that I’m not completely convinced by Cocu.  I don’t think he’s getting the best out of what we’ve got, but I also accept that what we’ve got probably isn’t good enough and the reasons for that are not Cocu’s fault.  He has been dealt a dodgy hand.  In this context, I’m willing to give him time to get things sorted, build a team he wants and he some stability.  

There is clearly going to be some pain in that approach, but getting somebody else in at the moment is unlikely to change anything.

I really do think that some of the reactions to losing are way over the top and unnecessary... but that will never change.
 

 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, LazloW said:

I’ve said before that I’m not completely convinced by Cocu.  I don’t think he’s getting the best out of what we’ve got, but I also accept that what we’ve got probably isn’t good enough and the reasons for that are not Cocu’s fault.  He has been dealt a dodgy hand.  In this context, I’m willing to give him time to get things sorted, build a team he wants and he some stability. 

I think that the more we put in ordinary (!) performances with players who can do better then more fans will ask 'what will Cocu's team look like next season' anyway.

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, rammieib said:

The first half was just awful from both teams - their tricky winger couldn't cross a ball which helped.

First 20 minutes of the second half was all Derby. We absolutely should have hammered home the win.

So you're agreeing with me then. I said "for the first 70 minutes against Luton it only looked like [Derby] would win." Whereas you essentially said, no one looked like scoring in the first half, with Derby the much more promising to score in the following 20 minutes.

Or are you not trying to argue against my reply?

[rynny]

18 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

I don't mean hiding behind a tweet.  I mean actually coming out for an interview.

Do you know why no player did? Do you think all the players turned round and said they weren't going out and giving an interview? Maybe they were ordered not to, maybe they were being given bollocking, and it went still was on going whilst they were supposed to do interviews. 

[lrm14]

11 hours ago, Uptherams said:

How many of those played in the same team though? Martin, Waghorn, Lawrence, Marriott and Rooney all here right now. Do these players have no previous record? Almost every side in the league would have taken your arm off if you offered them to their club. Loan players haven't worked out this season either. Dowell.

I never said they all played together and that's clearly not my point. The past 5 managers had players of that quality at their disposal and the only one who you could really argue is anywhere near that level on a consistent basis is Rooney. I love Martin but he's not the same 20 goal a season striker he was a few years ago, Waghorn has a trampoline touch in 75% of his games and has never been prolific at this level, Lawrence only turns up 1 in 10 games and Marriott is seemingly permanently unfit.

We were warned at the start of the season about Dowell by Forest and Sheff Utd fans who said he was extremely inconsistent and he was nothing to get excited about. They were proven right and he didn't even score the odd screamer that he usually does. Paterson was clearly a panic loan and was decent whenever he played but it was fairly clear he was going back to Bristol in January. Clarke has been solid. Not entirely sure what your point is about the loans, are you saying it's Cocu's fault Dowell was terrible for us?

Quote

We made players like Hughes, (Bryson) and Hendrick. Just like we have been with Bogle and gradually Lowe. Now Knight and Bird. If those two in particular start pulling up trees in the next 12-18 months, would you then be looking back and saying oh just an average squad? 

However good Knight or Bird are in 12 months is irrelevant because we're talking about the squad in it's current state now. If they are tearing it apart I'll be looking back at this period as one of transition that was exceptionally important in their development but that's besides the point. Bogle, Lowe, Knight, Bird, Sibley or Whittaker possibly being great in the future doesn't make the current team any better.

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It's no wonder other fans in this league are starting to form a dislike for our club. Too many of our fans acting as if we don't have the squad. It just makes them laugh at how spoilt we are. 

That's an interesting take, I personally think other fans are more likely to dislike us because some of our fans arrogantly claim that just because a player plays for Derby he's automatically better than anything a club like Preston or QPR have. It could also be the fact that a lot of our fans act as though we have some divine right to be in the Premier League because we're a bigger club than the likes of Bournemouth or Brighton. I don't think it's either of those though, I think we're disliked because we've been trying to buy our way out of the league for the past few seasons, aka doing a QPR, and that never goes down well. Oh and the who drink driver fiasco, that didn't help.

Either way I don't think us being disliked is anything to do with our fans not rating our poor, misfiring attack. I think you'll find other teams really don't rate the many of our players above their own.

[BucksRam]

Clearly a lot of understandable emotion here after a very disappointing result.  Luton is a tough place to go (I'm fairly local) and it was always going to be tough but,  once again this was a game we had the chances and play to win, even though we're playing very average football.  Hence the disappointment/anger.  

Key for me this season is to get myself to accept Championship survival is a success, as mad as that sounds, and reassure myself we will come good again.  If I had a crystal ball, I bet that if I were to list the first 11 this time next year, only a handful of the current team will remain.  Will Cocu still be at the helm, or Morris for that matter, remains to be seen.  Plan for the worst and all that.....so long as the worst isn't relegation!! 

In the meantime, buckle up for a rough ride (and no January signings!).

[Ghost of Clough]

I wonder what Bristol City's reaction was after they lost 3-0 to these, and Fulham's when they drew 3-3.

['Rambe33]

Last night was a sad tale to say the least. After getting the goal we should have controlled the next 15 minutes. First half was pretty even with both teams showing a lack of a cutting edge. Second half we came out and played with a real tempo and took the game to Luton. we were all over them and should have gone in front through Lawrence. We got the goal went ballistic at Rooney's deflected goal looping into the top bin (not how I'd imagine Wayne's first goal). This is where we showed a real lack of game management and pure panic. 

I couldn't really see what happened for their first goal at the time but a decent strike however Holmes needs to take some blame for not being in front of the man on the edge of the box. He's trying to cheat thinking of a breakaway rather than defending first and attacking second. Another set piece conceded. 

Second goal... No aggression in our defending, also looked a mismatch in terms of who was marking their towering defender. Another set piece ffs. 

Our second goal. Credit where its due, brilliant cross from Bogle and a proper centre forwards header from Chrissy. That should have been the point. We'd messed up a game we should have won now make sure you don't lose it. 

The red card. I do think it was a foul on Lowe before Hamer picked it up however he probably should have just booted it. Absolutely no excuses for Lowe after that. Complete headloss and I'd imagine he's pretty embarrassed by it. Now we have to put up with old Spaghetti Legs for 3 games. Personally would rather Fozzy at left back. Better in the air, 

Their third goal. Naive, weak, feeble are words that come to mind. Clarke has to do better, was beaten too easily and then what was Bogle doing? Harder to put that into your net than actually clear it. Hes got a habit of getting his feet in a tangle and its cost us. 

Some might say rotten luck but this really should have been a game we win. We'd have moved up to 13th had we won, extended the run and in good confidence going into a tricky game Friday. That cloud over our away form just got darker losing to bottom of the league. Its going to get harder. 

Subs wise Cocu should have introduced Marriott and Martin sooner. Waggy just isn't doing enough. Marriott stretches the game and defenders don't like how he drags them around. Martin has better hold up and is a clever player to link up with Rooney. 

The lack of trickery, guile, craft what ever you want to call it is so obvious. Really crying out for a someone who's going to take players on and beat them however this is nothing new and looking likely we won't get anyone in will mean we may find it difficult to improve fortunes for the remainder of the season. Really disappointed last night, and you could see Cocu was really annoyed and embarrassed how we threw that away. Is he blameless? Absolutely not but its the players who should take the brunt of this. They are the ones who are in control of the outcome and just didn't face up to the challenge. 

Sadly I feel its just going to get worse in the short term before it gets better. We need to grim and bear it this season I feel. Stoke at home becomes even more important now to get a win.