v Luton Town (A) - Matchday Thread

[atherstoneram]

4 hours ago, 'Rambe33 said:

Last night was a sad tale to say the least. After getting the goal we should have controlled the next 15 minutes. First half was pretty even with both teams showing a lack of a cutting edge. Second half we came out and played with a real tempo and took the game to Luton. we were all over them and should have gone in front through Lawrence. We got the goal went ballistic at Rooney's deflected goal looping into the top bin (not how I'd imagine Wayne's first goal). This is where we showed a real lack of game management and pure panic. 

I couldn't really see what happened for their first goal at the time but a decent strike however Holmes needs to take some blame for not being in front of the man on the edge of the box. He's trying to cheat thinking of a breakaway rather than defending first and attacking second. Another set piece conceded. 

Second goal... No aggression in our defending, also looked a mismatch in terms of who was marking their towering defender. Another set piece ffs. 

Our second goal. Credit where its due, brilliant cross from Bogle and a proper centre forwards header from Chrissy. That should have been the point. We'd messed up a game we should have won now make sure you don't lose it. 

The red card. I do think it was a foul on Lowe before Hamer picked it up however he probably should have just booted it. Absolutely no excuses for Lowe after that. Complete headloss and I'd imagine he's pretty embarrassed by it. Now we have to put up with old Spaghetti Legs for 3 games. Personally would rather Fozzy at left back. Better in the air, 

Their third goal. Naive, weak, feeble are words that come to mind. Clarke has to do better, was beaten too easily and then what was Bogle doing? Harder to put that into your net than actually clear it. Hes got a habit of getting his feet in a tangle and its cost us. 

Some might say rotten luck but this really should have been a game we win. We'd have moved up to 13th had we won, extended the run and in good confidence going into a tricky game Friday. That cloud over our away form just got darker losing to bottom of the league. Its going to get harder. 

Subs wise Cocu should have introduced Marriott and Martin sooner. Waggy just isn't doing enough. Marriott stretches the game and defenders don't like how he drags them around. Martin has better hold up and is a clever player to link up with Rooney. 

The lack of trickery, guile, craft what ever you want to call it is so obvious. Really crying out for a someone who's going to take players on and beat them however this is nothing new and looking likely we won't get anyone in will mean we may find it difficult to improve fortunes for the remainder of the season. Really disappointed last night, and you could see Cocu was really annoyed and embarrassed how we threw that away. Is he blameless? Absolutely not but its the players who should take the brunt of this. They are the ones who are in control of the outcome and just didn't face up to the challenge. 

Sadly I feel its just going to get worse in the short term before it gets better. We need to grim and bear it this season I feel. Stoke at home becomes even more important now to get a win. 

 I would rather see Shinnie playing left back if match fit, played some blinding games for the Dons in that position

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

Except being our most forward player, Intelligent passing of the ball, Scoring a goal, Putting decent corners in, But if you'd like to put him on a par with Lawrence and Waghorn then we're fooked.

Our most forward player? What does that even mean?

Intelligent passing of the ball? Any examples? Seem to remember him playing one effective pass last night.

The goal? The one he scuffed that was going straight at the goalkeeper until it was deflected you mean?

I'm not a Rooney hater or anything but, yes, he has been very much on a par with Lawrence and Waghorn in the last few games...completely ineffective.

At least Lawrence last night got on the ball a few times and carried it from our half up towards the opposition area.

[rammieib]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

So you're agreeing with me then. I said "for the first 70 minutes against Luton it only looked like [Derby] would win." Whereas you essentially said, no one looked like scoring in the first half, with Derby the much more promising to score in the following 20 minutes.

Or are you not trying to argue against my reply?

Didn't realise every post had to be either an Agreement or a rebuffal???

[TramRam]

41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Our most forward player? What does that even mean?

Intelligent passing of the ball? Any examples? Seem to remember him playing one effective pass last night.

The goal? The one he scuffed that was going straight at the goalkeeper until it was deflected you mean?

I'm not a Rooney hater or anything but, yes, he has been very much on a par with Lawrence and Waghorn in the last few games...completely ineffective.

At least Lawrence last night got on the ball a few times and carried it from our half up towards the opposition area.

1. The clue is in the sentence, He was the one most forward activley trying to do something.

2. Most of his "intelligent" passing went to a player in a Blue shirt.

3. Scuffed, Miss hit, Toe poked, Slid down his shin, Got a deflection, If you look at the stats it says Rooney scored no one else, Was there any one else there that managed to hit the target, I seem to remember Lawrence managed to hit the bar when the target was in full site.

4. Seems to be a matter of opinion, If you thought Rooneys performance was on a par with both Lawrence and Waghorn then your knowledge of football isn't as good as you think it is.

5. I can carry bricks up a ladder on a building site, But I'm poor at laying them.

 

TTFN.

['Rambe33]

5 hours ago, Reverend said:

Close enough ??

haha ffs. Marks for showing my working please Miss? 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Criminal from Derby for the following- 

conceding straight after scoring (twice) 

conceding from a corner (twice) 

getting caught out sleeping (Clarke)

not clearing a ball (Bogle)

picking you a back pass (Hamer)

pushing the ref ! (Lowe) 

[Inverurie Ram]

7 hours ago, 'Rambe33 said:

Last night was a sad tale to say the least. After getting the goal we should have controlled the next 15 minutes. First half was pretty even with both teams showing a lack of a cutting edge. Second half we came out and played with a real tempo and took the game to Luton. we were all over them and should have gone in front through Lawrence. We got the goal went ballistic at Rooney's deflected goal looping into the top bin (not how I'd imagine Wayne's first goal). This is where we showed a real lack of game management and pure panic. 

I couldn't really see what happened for their first goal at the time but a decent strike however Holmes needs to take some blame for not being in front of the man on the edge of the box. He's trying to cheat thinking of a breakaway rather than defending first and attacking second. Another set piece conceded. 

Second goal... No aggression in our defending, also looked a mismatch in terms of who was marking their towering defender. Another set piece ffs. 

Our second goal. Credit where its due, brilliant cross from Bogle and a proper centre forwards header from Chrissy. That should have been the point. We'd messed up a game we should have won now make sure you don't lose it. 

The red card. I do think it was a foul on Lowe before Hamer picked it up however he probably should have just booted it. Absolutely no excuses for Lowe after that. Complete headloss and I'd imagine he's pretty embarrassed by it. Now we have to put up with old Spaghetti Legs for 3 games. Personally would rather Fozzy at left back. Better in the air, 

Their third goal. Naive, weak, feeble are words that come to mind. Clarke has to do better, was beaten too easily and then what was Bogle doing? Harder to put that into your net than actually clear it. Hes got a habit of getting his feet in a tangle and its cost us. 

Some might say rotten luck but this really should have been a game we win. We'd have moved up to 13th had we won, extended the run and in good confidence going into a tricky game Friday. That cloud over our away form just got darker losing to bottom of the league. Its going to get harder. 

Subs wise Cocu should have introduced Marriott and Martin sooner. Waggy just isn't doing enough. Marriott stretches the game and defenders don't like how he drags them around. Martin has better hold up and is a clever player to link up with Rooney. 

The lack of trickery, guile, craft what ever you want to call it is so obvious. Really crying out for a someone who's going to take players on and beat them however this is nothing new and looking likely we won't get anyone in will mean we may find it difficult to improve fortunes for the remainder of the season. Really disappointed last night, and you could see Cocu was really annoyed and embarrassed how we threw that away. Is he blameless? Absolutely not but its the players who should take the brunt of this. They are the ones who are in control of the outcome and just didn't face up to the challenge. 

Sadly I feel its just going to get worse in the short term before it gets better. We need to grim and bear it this season I feel. Stoke at home becomes even more important now to get a win. 

Well written @'Rambe33.

Game is a walk in the park and won easily if TL could simply pass the ball or shoot without scuffing the ball into the goal from 6 yards out, plus Waghorn actually anticipating a through ball and actually getting there to shoot instead of his constant late slide and constantly being a couple of yards off the pace or failing to control a perfect pass or actually shoot instantly from the passes from Rooney. Plus all the defending points you have mentioned, especially the Holmes incident, when you see him casually jogging back before the 1st goal is driven in.

Holmes lack of being there to defend the 1st goal just sums up the mediocre lack of effort from several players time and time again, at major points of the game, they just seem to switch off, again and again, and that's what frustrates me the most, because they are all very capable of producing. Martin came on, and his very first touch of the ball, was more effective than what TL and MW had achieved in 80 mins.

There's far too many times in the game, where our players are wasting time chasing the ref to question decisions, which they are not going to change or be influenced by, for future decisions, and putting more effort in the ranting at the ref than they did to get their team in the terrible position in the first place, if they focused more on their quality of being able to pass a simple 5 yard, 10 yard pass etc to a team mate just to run on to, or to read and anticipate the play instead, we'd all be far better off.

[ossieram]

I see this is a popular thread! Did we lose?

[Derbyram1]

8 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Well written @'Rambe33.

Game is a walk in the park and won easily if TL could simply pass the ball or shoot without scuffing the ball into the goal from 6 yards out, plus Waghorn actually anticipating a through ball and actually getting there to shoot instead of his constant late slide and constantly being a couple of yards off the pace or failing to control a perfect pass or actually shoot instantly from the passes from Rooney. Plus all the defending points you have mentioned, especially the Holmes incident, when you see him casually jogging back before the 1st goal is driven in.

Holmes lack of being there to defend the 1st goal just sums up the mediocre lack of effort from several players time and time again, at major points of the game, they just seem to switch off, again and again, and that's what frustrates me the most, because they are all very capable of producing. Martin came on, and his very first touch of the ball, was more effective than what TL and MW had achieved in 80 mins.

There's far too many times in the game, where our players are wasting time chasing the ref to question decisions, which they are not going to change or be influenced by, for future decisions, and putting more effort in the ranting at the ref than they did to get their team in the terrible position in the first place, if they focused more on their quality of being able to pass a simple 5 yard, 10 yard pass etc to a team mate just to run on to, or to read and anticipate the play instead, we'd all be far better off.

Won easily if TL had put the ball in the net....?? We did put the hall in the net first and still lost so why would Tom putting his chance away make a difference?

If he had scored then what’s to say we wouldn’t of conceded straight after? 
 

You could argue that if Hamer hadn’t saved that near post shot then we would of lost 4-2.

You could also argue that the forwards did their job by scoring 2 away from home and the blame lies solely on the back 5.

[Inverurie Ram]

3 minutes ago, Derbyram1 said:

Won easily if TL had put the ball in the net....?? We did put the hall in the net first and still lost so why would Tom putting his chance away make a difference?

If he had scored then what’s to say we wouldn’t of conceded straight after? 
 

You could argue that if Hamer hadn’t saved that near post shot then we would of lost 4-2.

You could also argue that the forwards did their job by scoring 2 away from home and the blame lies solely on the back 5.

Yeah if TL had, we'd been 2-0 up and well in control of the game and if MW had put the ball in the net also with his chances then further ahead in the game. But yeah we are Derby County and even if we had gone 4-0 up, anything still could have happened.

And as you could argue any thing. Let's not bother, we lost 3-2 and that's the facts.

Maybe we should have stuck the Royal Albert Hall in their net first of all and that might have blocked our goal also, so then we might have won 1-0!

[Derbyram1]

10 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Yeah if TL had, we'd been 2-0 up and well in control of the game and if MW had put the ball in the net also with his chances then further ahead in the game. But yeah we are Derby County and even if we had gone 4-0 up, anything still could have happened.

And as you could argue any thing. Let's not bother, we lost 3-2 and that's the facts.

Maybe we should have stuck the Royal Albert Hall in their net first of all and that might have blocked our goal also, so then we might have won 1-0!

Why would we of gone 2-0 up!?? The Rooney goal probably wouldn’t of happened if Tom had scored first as we wouldn’t of been so attack minded.

Your whole post was saying, what if this happened and what if that happened but when I make a similar point you accuse me of arguing. 
 

The whole team was awful, even Knight was having an off day but its easy to blame TL & MW as they are this season scapegoats.

 

[Elwood P Dowd]

Derby counter attack with the speed of a group of old age pensioners, by the time we get into the last third of the pitch the opposition has eight defenders in place. Derby do move the ball around quickly but it’s not positive/ forward movement.

[Mountain Ram]

4 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

 I would rather see Shinnie playing left back if match fit, played some blinding games for the Dons in that position

To give it some balance though, he also played left back for Scotland when they lost 3-0 to Kazakhstan...

I’m not convinced by Malone and I don’t know if Forsyth has the legs for LB anymore, but I think we’d still be better playing Shinnie in his first choice position, rather than getting him to fill in at LB.

[DavesaRam]

Well Wayne Rooney has had a wake up call. Not because of the loss, but because he has a couple of games finding out what it is like playing for a team that hasn't got the ref in their pocket. And for the last two matches, he has found out what Manure's opponents feel like, playing against a team that definitely has got the ref in their pocket. There may well be some more rolling eyes, but I suggest they roll their eyes at the EFL's inability to provide more than a couple of impartial, even-handed refs per season. Last night it took the ref around 25 minutes to award a free-kick to Derby. His performance was summed up by two events only a short time apart. Firstly he penalised Tom Lawrence, quite correctly, for a tiny push in the back of a Luton defender. Then, as Max Lowe is making a tackle, he is shoved in the back and off balance with about 5 times the force for which Tom was penalised. But no fee-kick. Whether it was a back-pass or not is actually irrelevant because the donkey should have blown up for the foul. But didn't. There are also claims that Hamer asked the ref if he could pick the ball up (Hamer pick it up, not the ref), and that the ref indicated a "yes", so Hamer picked it up, and the ref blew for a foul. The instant rage from Hamer was to protest "what did you do that for? You just told me I could pick it up!" I would also suggest that Max Lowe was livid  because the ref had been giving Luton free-kicks for nothing all match, and Derby naff for most of the match. That is the second match in a row where the officials have been excessively one-sided, instead of the normal merely favouring the opposition, or simply being useless. Rooney was also booked for dissent, so it seems that the whole team are getting hacked off with the standard of officiating. But it doesn't excuse them loosing their heads.

And once again, we didn't actually need the ref to throw the match, despite the penalty appeal on Tom Lawrence, because we can still manage to throw the match all by ourselves, thank you very much.

And slowly but surely, (its the Derby way!) on to the football. For much of the match we played well, and our interpassing is hugely improved over only a few weeks ago. Approach play was therefore pretty good at times, but could have been done with a higher tempo. Hmmm, I'm sure I've seen that comment somewhere else. However, we struggled in the final third, with Waghorn's bagatelle shins and Lawrence's love of blind alleys and wrong decisions hampered any decent approach play. Although this time, Waghorn actually won a header, so he'll probably get bollocked for not trying to foul the defender! At half time I was reasonably OK ish because we had payed better than we have in the past away from home, and maybe Cocu was finally starting to get his ideas across - notably playing one-up front with a player who can't do the basic one-up front stuff.

Second half was a step up because he opened a brand new carton of tempo and gave the players a drink, and only one team looked like scoring at the point. Which we did, helped by a deflection, but at least Wayne had the shot. And then we decided to help the travelling fans out by stopping and watching the game pass us by. And the goal was a shot from 18 - 20 yards which flashed past 5 players, each of which could have stuck their leg out and stopped the shot. I didn't see the second goal as i had to leave the room, but it seems it was the "Derby Way" defending again. The third goal was a mistake by Clarke, who let his runner go (again). And we also had our Tom gamble to be in the right place for a dropping ball on the 6-yard line, and managing to hit the bar. Deonne Burton anyone? He was good at being good at not quite scoring.

There was plenty to be upbeat about,  our interplay especially. But going a goal ahead and then going hyper-cautious simply said to Luton "Come and get us". Which they did. And when we are facing possibly the worst team in the championship, why did we go for one-up front? We should be much more attacking so that we can start to build a decent goal difference. And why so late with the substitutions?

The stand out player again was Max Bird who always seemed to be able to find himself in space to receive the ball, which he always wanted, and he always seems to know what he is going to do with the ball before it reaches him He is not only a tremendous prospect, he is proving to be a vital part of the team.

Incidentally, Darren England was at it again. I had heard that he was heavily fined for his pisstake  against Northampton - that was via my daughter's partner, but have not had it confirmed as yet. But he was boo'd off at half tie by the Leeds fans, and then controversially tuned down a Millwall penalty appeal, so he's still useless.

[atherstoneram]

40 minutes ago, Mountain Ram said:

To give it some balance though, he also played left back for Scotland when they lost 3-0 to Kazakhstan...

I’m not convinced by Malone and I don’t know if Forsyth has the legs for LB anymore, but I think we’d still be better playing Shinnie in his first choice position, rather than getting him to fill in at LB.

But in all fairness you can't really compare an International to playing for your club in a league match. In all the games i watched him play for the Dons i cant remember him having a poor game whatever position he played in.

[europia]

2 hours ago, Derbyram1 said:

 

The whole team was awful, even Knight was having an off day but its easy to blame TL & MW as they are this season scapegoats.

 

Not sure about Lawrence and Waghorn being scapegoats. They just need to do what they are paid to do....perform on a football pitch. 

[derbydaz22]

I do think Waggy needs a rest at the moment he’s far from being the only problem but his control and hold up play is non existent,we look a mess at the moment and somehow  we need to gain enough points to stay in this division but with our shocking away form we need to be careful with some tough home games in the last few months of the season.

[MaltRam]

I think I'm quite a positive fan, and I prefer not to be critical these days, so if I've nowt to say that's positive or encouraging I like to shut my gob.

That was ducking woeful last night though. I've left it 24 hours for a bit of perspective, but that was appalling. 

[Monkeytennis12345]

I was unfortunate enough to watch the game with the Luton fans who were amazed that we let them back in it, then let then win it !

The consensus among their lot was that Lawrence was by far our best player and that Rooney was played too deep (No poo?). I couldn't wait to get away.

[sage]

On 28/01/2020 at 21:39, sage said:

What a bunch of hysterical ninnies on here tonight. 

Hope none of you slashed your wrists and missed last night's game.