v Northampton Town (A) - Matchday Thread

[King Kevin]

6 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

After watching last nights game the club need to be seriously thinking about paying fans to turn up for the replay unless you are a chronic insomniac

I have to confess  I went out had a few beers put the match on and was asleep by half time .Did I miss anything?

[DavesaRam]

I managed the whole 90 last night. I was a bit tired out 'cos I kept having to walk all the way to the fridge to get the next beer, but I slogged away unfalteringly. Such commitment to the cause! 

There are two factors as to why we apparently didn't romp to a huge victory last night. And no, we shouldn't need a red card to help us win. However, we do always get fit refs. It must be in the EFL rules of football somewhere! And I was going to say more about the ref, but don't want to sound like Dave is a Ram! (Thanks, Angie!) I do think that HAlf Fan HalfBiscuit is on to something - why don't the club get the shirts made with a Velcro seam down each side so that every shirt pull results in the shirt trailing in the wind having obviously been pulled?

The first thing we need to consider is that the smaller clubs invariably play out of the skins in FA Cup ties like this one, and therefore give bigger clubs a tough time. Calling this type of tie a potential banana skin isn't just PR to increase viewing figures - a high number of big clubs have come unstuck, some because they put out a reserve team or less (Derby v Forest in the Carabao Cup, anyone?), but many because of the adrenaline boost these ties give the smaller clubs.

Also, outside of the hug gulf between Premiership and Championship levels, the differences between the lower leagues is nowhere near as great - the Northampton player who came on as sub right near the end of the match had played at England Under-23 level only a short while ago. The days when the likes of Manchester Untied could turn up at Northampton and trounce them 8 - 0 is no longer a forgone conclusion. More likely these days that sort of scoreline only happens when a teams' heads have gone and they have lost the game psychologically.

The second issue is where the bigger team gets drawn into playing the lower teams type of game. Last night's pitch seemed extra-ordinarily bouncy, which would not bother Northampton much as they are able to cope with challenging for a constant barrage of high balls. They did all right when the midfield battle was effectively head-tennis, whereas we struggled. But when we got the ball on the ground and played football - there is a reason the game has that name - we did all right. And although we do need to be aware of the opposition's strengths and weaknesses, Cocu's insistence on setting us up to accommodate how the opposition play often leads to our downfall because we are concentrating too much on what they might do to us instead of getting on with our own game and making them worry about us. Admittedly we did start out more on the front foot, with the full backs pushing forwards much more than they normally do, but far too often, instead of taking the ball down and playing it around, we resorted to simply hoofing the ball up in the air to the midfield area, where Northampton's familiarity with the airborne game gave them the advantage.

And we are still faffing around with playing the ball out from the back, but even Northampton knew to set their strikers and midfielders onto us in high press, so that we would pass it around each other at the back, then feed it back to Roos who them played the long ball which he would have done if we hadn't bothered with our PIOFTB philosophy. I can't think of a single occasion where we simply played it long straight away, yet virtually always ended up going long anyway!

Incidentally, apart from one bit of poor positioning nearly gifting the cobblers a goal, Roos played really well, and didn't flap at a single cross. He caught all of them! Well done that keeper! And although we didn't manage a single shot on target all night, which sounds terrible, we did have several attempts on goal, but they were all blocked before getting near the posts, because Northampton defended their area really well. But on the other hand, hardly anyone stood out last night, except for Max Bird, who is playing well, well ahead of his age. Not having Beilik around for a while doesn't worry much simply because of what we have in Max. He always wants the ball, never looks under pressure, and always seems to know what he is going to do with the ball before it even gets to him. Rather a lot like George Thorne, I would say. And although he did have a bit of a hobble after a challenge last night, he doesn't seem to have a predisposition to injury. So long live Max Bird!

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

However, we do always get fit refs.

And I thought you disliked most of the ones we are given. Playing hard to get were you? ?

[B4ev6is]

Well I will go to replay at pp I do think we should have advantage over them.

[angieram]

16 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

I managed the whole 90 last night. I was a bit tired out 'cos I kept having to walk all the way to the fridge to get the next beer, but I slogged away unfalteringly. Such commitment to the cause! 

There are two factors as to why we apparently didn't romp to a huge victory last night. And no, we shouldn't need a red card to help us win. However, we do always get fit refs. It must be in the EFL rules of football somewhere! And I was going to say more about the ref, but don't want to sound like Dave is a Ram! (Thanks, Angie!) I do think that HAlf Fan HalfBiscuit is on to something - why don't the club get the shirts made with a Velcro seam down each side so that every shirt pull results in the shirt trailing in the wind having obviously been pulled?

The first thing we need to consider is that the smaller clubs invariably play out of the skins in FA Cup ties like this one, and therefore give bigger clubs a tough time. Calling this type of tie a potential banana skin isn't just PR to increase viewing figures - a high number of big clubs have come unstuck, some because they put out a reserve team or less (Derby v Forest in the Carabao Cup, anyone?), but many because of the adrenaline boost these ties give the smaller clubs.

Also, outside of the hug gulf between Premiership and Championship levels, the differences between the lower leagues is nowhere near as great - the Northampton player who came on as sub right near the end of the match had played at England Under-23 level only a short while ago. The days when the likes of Manchester Untied could turn up at Northampton and trounce them 8 - 0 is no longer a forgone conclusion. More likely these days that sort of scoreline only happens when a teams' heads have gone and they have lost the game psychologically.

The second issue is where the bigger team gets drawn into playing the lower teams type of game. Last night's pitch seemed extra-ordinarily bouncy, which would not bother Northampton much as they are able to cope with challenging for a constant barrage of high balls. They did all right when the midfield battle was effectively head-tennis, whereas we struggled. But when we got the ball on the ground and played football - there is a reason the game has that name - we did all right. And although we do need to be aware of the opposition's strengths and weaknesses, Cocu's insistence on setting us up to accommodate how the opposition play often leads to our downfall because we are concentrating too much on what they might do to us instead of getting on with our own game and making them worry about us. Admittedly we did start out more on the front foot, with the full backs pushing forwards much more than they normally do, but far too often, instead of taking the ball down and playing it around, we resorted to simply hoofing the ball up in the air to the midfield area, where Northampton's familiarity with the airborne game gave them the advantage.

And we are still faffing around with playing the ball out from the back, but even Northampton knew to set their strikers and midfielders onto us in high press, so that we would pass it around each other at the back, then feed it back to Roos who them played the long ball which he would have done if we hadn't bothered with our PIOFTB philosophy. I can't think of a single occasion where we simply played it long straight away, yet virtually always ended up going long anyway!

Incidentally, apart from one bit of poor positioning nearly gifting the cobblers a goal, Roos played really well, and didn't flap at a single cross. He caught all of them! Well done that keeper! And although we didn't manage a single shot on target all night, which sounds terrible, we did have several attempts on goal, but they were all blocked before getting near the posts, because Northampton defended their area really well. But on the other hand, hardly anyone stood out last night, except for Max Bird, who is playing well, well ahead of his age. Not having Beilik around for a while doesn't worry much simply because of what we have in Max. He always wants the ball, never looks under pressure, and always seems to know what he is going to do with the ball before it even gets to him. Rather a lot like George Thorne, I would say. And although he did have a bit of a hobble after a challenge last night, he doesn't seem to have a predisposition to injury. So long live Max Bird!

I hope you don't mind my teasing. I love your match reports. And very much agree with you about Max Bird. 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Thought we were a bit poor to be honest. We let Northampton bully us and the ref was by far the worst we've had all season and we've had some right shockers. In mitigation, the pitch was like a ploughed field, they were pretty robust, putting it politely but they also played out of their skins, so perhaps a little credit to them?

As for the team selection, some of the same people who were expressing delight at the team selection, were then up in arms inside 15 minutes. You wanted kids, you got kids, you wanted Marriott, once again you got him, you wanted him alongside Martin, got that too. As for the this unbeaten run being the worst football ever seen, get a grip! 

Darren England reffed us against Cardiff in September and had a stinker then, too. Turned down a very strong penalty appeal and generally gave everything the other way.

He's recently been promoted to the Premier League and gave a corner instead of a penalty in his first game Southampton v Wolves that VAR overturned. The look on his face when he had to change the decision was priceless.

Missing something that obvious last night on tv won't get him another Premier League game again any time soon.

[DavesaRam]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

And I thought you disliked most of the ones we are given. Playing hard to get were you? ?

? I don't swear, neither will the forum autocorrect let me, but wanted to say it in a recognisable way. And fit rhymes with .............

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, bigbadbob said:

Dean moxey?

Left full back from Exeter, Clough Jnr played him as centre forward a couple of times (when we had an injury crisis, I think it was?).

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

Darren England reffed us against Cardiff in September and had a stinker then, too. Turned down a very strong penalty appeal and generally gave everything the other way.

He's recently been promoted to the Premier League and gave a corner instead of a penalty in his first game Southampton v Wolves that VAR overturned. The look on his face when he had to change the decision was priceless.

Missing something that obvious last night on tv won't get him another Premier League game again any time soon.

Ah, I remember that now! Gotta say he's the worst I've seen in a very long time. Strangely, he didn't miss a lot when it was our lads going in strong. That's what annoyed me most, the sheer inconsistency of his work. 

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

? I don't swear, neither will the forum autocorrect let me, but wanted to say it in a recognisable way. And fit rhymes with .............

The cat’s out of the bag now. You don’t need to hide your true feelings anymore. 

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, King Kevin said:

I have to confess  I went out had a few beers put the match on and was asleep by half time .Did I miss anything?

No

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

I managed the whole 90 last night. I was a bit tired out 'cos I kept having to walk all the way to the fridge to get the next beer, but I slogged away unfalteringly. Such commitment to the cause! 

There are two factors as to why we apparently didn't romp to a huge victory last night. And no, we shouldn't need a red card to help us win. However, we do always get fit refs. It must be in the EFL rules of football somewhere! And I was going to say more about the ref, but don't want to sound like Dave is a Ram! (Thanks, Angie!) I do think that HAlf Fan HalfBiscuit is on to something - why don't the club get the shirts made with a Velcro seam down each side so that every shirt pull results in the shirt trailing in the wind having obviously been pulled?

The first thing we need to consider is that the smaller clubs invariably play out of the skins in FA Cup ties like this one, and therefore give bigger clubs a tough time. Calling this type of tie a potential banana skin isn't just PR to increase viewing figures - a high number of big clubs have come unstuck, some because they put out a reserve team or less (Derby v Forest in the Carabao Cup, anyone?), but many because of the adrenaline boost these ties give the smaller clubs.

Also, outside of the hug gulf between Premiership and Championship levels, the differences between the lower leagues is nowhere near as great - the Northampton player who came on as sub right near the end of the match had played at England Under-23 level only a short while ago. The days when the likes of Manchester Untied could turn up at Northampton and trounce them 8 - 0 is no longer a forgone conclusion. More likely these days that sort of scoreline only happens when a teams' heads have gone and they have lost the game psychologically.

The second issue is where the bigger team gets drawn into playing the lower teams type of game. Last night's pitch seemed extra-ordinarily bouncy, which would not bother Northampton much as they are able to cope with challenging for a constant barrage of high balls. They did all right when the midfield battle was effectively head-tennis, whereas we struggled. But when we got the ball on the ground and played football - there is a reason the game has that name - we did all right. And although we do need to be aware of the opposition's strengths and weaknesses, Cocu's insistence on setting us up to accommodate how the opposition play often leads to our downfall because we are concentrating too much on what they might do to us instead of getting on with our own game and making them worry about us. Admittedly we did start out more on the front foot, with the full backs pushing forwards much more than they normally do, but far too often, instead of taking the ball down and playing it around, we resorted to simply hoofing the ball up in the air to the midfield area, where Northampton's familiarity with the airborne game gave them the advantage.

And we are still faffing around with playing the ball out from the back, but even Northampton knew to set their strikers and midfielders onto us in high press, so that we would pass it around each other at the back, then feed it back to Roos who them played the long ball which he would have done if we hadn't bothered with our PIOFTB philosophy. I can't think of a single occasion where we simply played it long straight away, yet virtually always ended up going long anyway!

Incidentally, apart from one bit of poor positioning nearly gifting the cobblers a goal, Roos played really well, and didn't flap at a single cross. He caught all of them! Well done that keeper! And although we didn't manage a single shot on target all night, which sounds terrible, we did have several attempts on goal, but they were all blocked before getting near the posts, because Northampton defended their area really well. But on the other hand, hardly anyone stood out last night, except for Max Bird, who is playing well, well ahead of his age. Not having Beilik around for a while doesn't worry much simply because of what we have in Max. He always wants the ball, never looks under pressure, and always seems to know what he is going to do with the ball before it even gets to him. Rather a lot like George Thorne, I would say. And although he did have a bit of a hobble after a challenge last night, he doesn't seem to have a predisposition to injury. So long live Max Bird!

I've got to be honest I've occasionally rolled my eyes at your very biased opinions of referees (although in some way I actually I find it quite an endearing feature of your posts!) but I think you've got it spot on here.

At least you're biased towards the club and can appreciate what we're trying to do, unlike some posters who just want to paint everything in as dim a light as possible.

A well writtten, fair and dignified assessment with some well considered thought put into it. 

Cheers Dave!

[May Contain Nuts]

10 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

My concern, and this is a recurring one throughout our season it’s something Iv seen... as have many and savage talked about in commentary last night 

but what are actually trying to do ?

how are we trying to beat the opposition ?

to quote savage last night ‘ I don’t know what Derby’s game plan is’ Northampton’s is get it forward at every opportunity, but I don’t know what Derby are trying to do’

he nailed it ... in one first half of watching us he nailed what my frustrations are with cocu

i don’t know we’re trying to do ?

We don’t get bodies in the box, we seldom ( I counted TwIce ) have midfield runners going past out front men, we don’t support our front man, We don’t get crosses in of any quality... not that there’s a lot to hit in there 

we don’t try and turn the opposition, we don’t try and work the flanks , we occasionally give the ball to bogle or lowe, stand back and see if they can beat their man and get a cross in to the one it maybe two bodies in the box.. invariably of late they’ve been losing it 

we play and attack at a snails pace opting for the safe sideways or back pass rather than trying to Play between the lines 

some of it is having the players to do this but there are so so many fundamentals that we see not happening on a weekly basis is my massive concern 

We gaa as we to stick with it and cocu, we don’t have a choice , the last thing we need is more upheaval, I just sit there thinking another manager could cut loose some of the conservative shackles and we could see a lot more from this lot despite their obvious limitations 

maybe I’m just being fantisiful 

anyway ... onto Luton let’s hope for a little more urgency and purpose and 3 points  

In the face of criticism that I can't accept contrary opinions / viewpoints I'd like to highlight this post as one which has expressed exactly the same concerns I have but doesn't resort to over-egging the pudding. 

My comforting thought amongst a nagging doubt is  that I don't believe that what we're seeing is really how Cocu WANTS us to be performing, more that until he really has the chance to shape the squad to his liking people won't see the bigger ideas at play.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, King Kevin said:

I have to confess  I went out had a few beers put the match on and was asleep by half time .Did I miss anything?

More valuable drinking time?

[NottsRam77]

10 hours ago, dajstrawb said:

We hold position. Shape. That’s what we do. Cocu and his men are trying to make us hard to beat first. Stop us losing games. And it’s working. It’s step 1. And he’s looks close to implementing it. Patience. 

I would agree with u , but against boro the first half especially that philosophy appeared to be more by fault than design as better finishing would have seen them out of site 

A sceptic could also point to bowens 6 yard box sitter first half in a game against hull where absolutely nothing was created by either side as more fortune than design 

I appreciate in the main we are looking more solid but for me that’s more to do with Clark (a proper centre half and not a makeshift fozzy) than tactics tbh 

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

I appreciate in the main we are looking more solid but for me that’s more to do with Clark (a proper centre half and not a makeshift fozzy) than tactics tbh 

Whilst I see what is being said I don't really to what end with these players as won't they all change next season? So we're just seeing out time and trying not to get relegated? Nope don't see where it's going.

[Inverurie Ram]

9 hours ago, angieram said:

Some strange reactions to last night's game on here. I was a little worried when I saw some of the score predictions beforehand, and even more so when I read the almost universal praise for the line-up, despite the eight changes. 

You could tell from the buzz around the ground and retail park pre-game that this was a big match for Northampton and they were a Town up for the Cup!

I thought they did a great job of creating an atmosphere that the team then responded to with grit and determination. 

It wasn't really a match of any great quality on either side but we were set up to counteract their direct play and physicality, and on the whole I thought we did that pretty well. Northampton tread a very fine line between physicality and thuggery. At the risk of sounding like Dave is a Ram I think it would have been a different game if we had any protection from the referee, not just for the obvious foul and sending off but for the amount of pushing, shoving and holding back that wasn't even considered as being a foul. Anything above waist high was considered fair game - the kick into Waghorn's midriff and a particularly blatant shove into Wisdom when he move a good four feet in mid-air were just two examples, but the game was littered with them. 

I thought we looked like we hadn't played much with this line-up, which we hadn't,  so there was every reason to look disjointed. For those moaning at Sibley, are you the ones who were also complaining about Knight after two or three games? It has taken Knight a while to settle into the side, same with Whittaker ( he had a very bright cameo last night) so please be patient. At the other end of the spectrum, Rooney is still working towards full match fitness.

The only way that these players get that is with matches. Cocu has decided he is using the Cup for this, so moan about that if you want, rather than about individual players.

There wasn't really a lot of football from Derby worth commenting on but I thought Martin held the ball up well when he had it. I thought we missed Waghorn's sheer work rate up front, though, and the substitution that brought on Bogle was strange. If ever a game was crying out for Duane Holmes, this was it. 

I'm not sure we as fans will welcome another game, but maybe the club will appreciate the revenue, especially if televised again, and Cocu will have a chance to set us up to play more of our own football next time - and give some minutes to players who need them. 

I'm so glad you joined this forum @angieram you read the Derby games so well, you really do watch it and see what is going on and then write about it on here, so very well indeed. 

You see the whole picture, you understand football and always reflect that in your posts, perspective, patience, the importance of learning and improving, and the great enjoyment you get from watching and seeing the Under 23's and Under 19's etc like others do on this forum, and you understand what the club are trying to do and want to share the positives that some of us, want to enjoy, the pride you have of supporting your club, Derby County Football Club shines on.

I thought Goode had a good game and sometimes in life, you get the rub of the green, that's just life.

We could all learn a great deal, from you, and your wonderful posts, keep them coming.

Justice for Harry Dunn. D.C.F.C Love, Life & Unity. Up The Rams.

 

[Will Hughes Hair]

So I watched down the pub with the sound off.  Must have been some good ale because the hyperbole in this thread has been something else.

Tbf it wasn't a great performance but I think Northampton deserve some credit for having and sticking to a game plan that that played to their physical advantages.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we are a short team.  It's difficult playing football when the ball is above your head.

Big learning experience for the young lads in midfield and they certainly didn't role over for a tummy tickle.  We'll see the benefits from this match further down the line as our young midfielders grow and progress over the coming months and years.  Obviously that isn't instant enough for some but hey ho.

If I had criticism it's the fact that our forward line offers neither physicality or a tremendous amount of mobility off the ball.  Coupled with our commitment to a defensive structure it means we don't have midfield runners supporting.  It's why sometimes we appear toothless and I think it's unlikely to change until Cocu manages to revamp our forward line.

Anyway the draw seemed a fair result and although the replay won't be easy I expect us to have enough to progress.

Two other thoughts.  Whittaker is a player and it's not just last nights game or the nutmeg that took two players out of the game that should have convinced you.  Not with me?  Book mark me and you can apologise in May.

Secondly Charlie Goode despite not getting sent off was the stand out player on the pitch.  6'5", 23 years old and a dominant right sided CB.  If we're in the game of discovering unpolished gems could our scouting team have found one under our noses?

[Inverurie Ram]

On 24 January 2020 at 19:50, hintonsboots said:

Who’s the guy on BT sport ? Is it huggy bear ?

 

[Inverurie Ram]

6 hours ago, angieram said:

Darren England reffed us against Cardiff in September and had a stinker then, too. Turned down a very strong penalty appeal and generally gave everything the other way.

He's recently been promoted to the Premier League and gave a corner instead of a penalty in his first game Southampton v Wolves that VAR overturned. The look on his face when he had to change the decision was priceless.

Missing something that obvious last night on tv won't get him another Premier League game again any time soon.

I thought he was going to spray Wayne in his eyes at half time, with his can of white spray paint when Wayne enquired about him missing the stone wall foul on Marriott. But when he reached for it, he missed that as well!