Angry Ram Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 17 hours ago, GboroRam said: Anything factually incorrect in the article? They have 3 years to apply for a licence and the Govt have said that they will smooth the process. I believe they only have about 200,000 who use them and they were struggling to attract more. Using Brexit is a cheap excuse, it's just a poor business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 36 minutes ago, maxjam said: In my humble opinion its one of these issues, probably the trans issue, that will either lead to both the Democrats and Labour splitting into two distinct parties or enough people becoming aware of the extreme identity politics crap and rejecting it - leading to more centrist leaders and policies becoming popular again. I don't think it's "identity politics crap" that is the root of the issue. As I've argued before, there is nothing inherently wrong with (what is referred to as) "identity politics". It's a perfectly valid way of fighting for human rights via collective power. It's just that traditionally the oppressed identity has an oppressor who is in the wrong The Trans debate is a bit like the gay cake/religious baker court case - an unwinnable argument when it's two oppressed identity groups arguing against each other. There is no hierarchy in play Here we have trans rights versus female rights. On the one hand, it's totally wrong to deny the rights of a trans person to self-identify and live the life that they feel comfortable with. On the other hand it's totally wrong to deny women the right to have a safe space with no penises that they feel comfortable with I don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's not one side screaming TERF! BIGOT! at anyone who dares to want to consider both sides of the argument, and then the other side also ignoring the need for rational discussion and instead just amplifying their opposite numbers as "this is what the loony virtue-signalling left looks like". There is no arriving at the centre ground whilst both sides are busy being angry with each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: There has to be an acceptance at some point as to how severely JC failed on all fronts, and how the whole Momentum thing is a pile of excrement. Well, his own Islington North Labour Party branch has already voted to support Starmer in the leadership elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 20 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Just in case anyone wants anymore evidence of BBC being biased:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51463632 A bank set up after Brexit had already been voted for blame Brexit for having to close down and the BBC actually report it. You couldn't make it up. FWIW my financial situation is the best it has been in years, I wonder if I put it down to Brexit if the BBC would report on it? Well I don't think it's closing down, I think it will still offer accounts to those in the rest of the EU, however it's berlin/German banking license will no longer be valid here. Not sure why you'd want to hold one of these accounts anyway as they don't even have fsc protection and you'd be dealing with German authorities if it went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, maxjam said: For sure there is a discussion to be had, but to sign up to these things (and criminalise language and thoughts that were (are) perfectly reasonable a year or so ago) without having widespread debates is just gonna end up in being wiped out at the polls again as you just come across as virtue signalling loonies. Perhaps this post shows why you seem more comfortable regurgitating the Youtube spewings of Jordan Peterson and Sargon of Rapeyville than forming your own opinions? You rail incessantly against those who in your mind seek to 'control your thoughts and language' but equally often accuse folk whose opinions you don't like of having mental health issues. One might be forgiven for thinking that your constant use of terms such as 'virtue signalling loonies' is indicative of the the same, if not higher levels of intolerance, than those whom you seek to demean. Since you've whined endlessly over the last 2-3 years about 'petty insults', how about desisting from puerile name-calling yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I don't think it's "identity politics crap" that is the root of the issue. As I've argued before, there is nothing inherently wrong with (what is referred to as) "identity politics". It's a perfectly valid way of fighting for human rights via collective power. Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I could have perhaps prefaced it with 'extreme' identity politics crap but I think for a lot of people the loonie lefties are indeed that, loonies. 49 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: The Trans debate is a bit like the gay cake/religious baker court case - an unwinnable argument when it's two oppressed identity groups arguing against each other. There is no hierarchy in play This is the perfect example of how the left ends up fighting itself over identity politics. When people started getting banned from social media for expressing their free speech lefties said Twitter or whoever are private companies they can ban who they want. When Ashers (a private company) decline to make a cake on religious grounds, lefties rage saying they should be forced to make it. 51 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Here we have trans rights versus female rights. On the one hand, it's totally wrong to deny the rights of a trans person to self-identify and live the life that they feel comfortable with. On the other hand it's totally wrong to deny women the right to have a safe space with no penises that they feel comfortable with With the prevalance of Trans and LGBT rights its not only Trans vs Feminism that will become a sticking point (there is already a breakaway LGB faction that have dropped the T) but it will also clash more frequently with certain religious ideologies and increasingly impact the lives of regular people that would be otherwise oblivious to whats going on. My prediction is this will all get out of hand over the next year or two as extremists in the various factions demand ever more rights and protections. It will probably all come to a head after Trump wins another 4 years and centrist Democrats do some real soul searching as to how its possible to keep losing to someone like him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Perhaps this post shows why you seem more comfortable regurgitating the Youtube spewings of Jordan Peterson and Sargon of Rapeyville than forming your own opinions? You rail incessantly against those who in your mind seek to 'control your thoughts and language' but equally often accuse folk whose opinions you don't like of having mental health issues. One might be forgiven for thinking that your constant use of terms such as 'virtue signalling loonies' is indicative of the the same, if not higher levels of intolerance, than those whom you seek to demean. Since you've whined endlessly over the last 2-3 years about 'petty insults', how about desisting from puerile name-calling yourself? Unless you class yourself as one of the social media extremists that call for others to be silenced in the pursuit of furthering your own minority agenda at the expense of all others then I wouldn't class anyone on here as a loonie left. Describing the twitterati mob that apparently have the ear of the Labour leadership as loonies to criticise them is fair game imo, but you no doubt will argue different. Furthermore not only are these are my own opinions, but I think they are opinions shared by a lot of 'average' people. How did Labour do again in the last election, despite the loonie lefties on social media being confident that they could win? Just because my opinions apparently tie in with those of Jordan Peterson or Carl Benjamin is neither here nor there, I've been sticking to the same mantra since I first ventured into the various politics threads years ago. For me it has always been far more about identity politics and social media hypocrisy than the poltics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, maxjam said: This is the perfect example of how the left ends up fighting itself over identity politics. When people started getting banned from social media for expressing their free speech lefties said Twitter or whoever are private companies they can ban who they want. When Ashers (a private company) decline to make a cake on religious grounds, lefties rage saying they should be forced to make it. Actually, it's the other way round. It's the right who rushed to the defence of the cake people but constantly berate twitter et al for curtailing free speech. See, for example, the endless barking on sites like Spiked, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Actually, it's the other way round. It's the right who rushed to the defence of the cake people but constantly berate twitter et al for curtailing free speech. See, for example, the endless barking on sites like Spiked, for example. Yes, thats what I said. The left applaud Twitter curtailing free speech and used 'its a private company they can do what they want' as an excuse but when a private company does what it wants in refusing to bake a cake celebrating a gay marriage they conveniently ignore that excuse and demand they make the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: It's certainly a strange one. Maybe there have always been BAMFORDS like Cummings in the background acting as advisors and setting agendas Alastair Campbell ring a bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: You rail incessantly against those who in your mind seek to 'control your thoughts and language' but equally often accuse folk whose opinions you don't like of having mental health issues. One might be forgiven for thinking that your constant use of terms such as 'virtue signalling loonies' is indicative of the the same, if not higher levels of intolerance, than those whom you seek to demean I keep trying to make the same point, but he's yet to have reached that moment of introspection. I don't agree with the militant left. I roll my eyes quite violently at times. But I tolerate them, because I'm a tolerant person, and it doesn't really matter that much to me. However, if you don't tolerate them and your constantly up in arms about everything they say and do, then that's a symptom of your own intolerance. One day the penny might drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I keep trying to make the same point, but he's yet to have reached that moment of introspection. I don't agree with the militant left. I roll my eyes quite violently at times. But I tolerate them, because I'm a tolerant person, and it doesn't really matter that much to me. However, if you don't tolerate them and your constantly up in arms about everything they say and do, then that's a symptom of your own intolerance. One day the penny might drop Yep. Do as I say, not as I do is the mantra. Peterson is prescription drug-addled crybaby currently undergoing rehab for the umpteenth time, on this occasion in Moscow and Creepy Carl tweets rape jokes that are apparently satire and thinks paedophilia is ok. Nothing to see here though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 34 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I keep trying to make the same point, but he's yet to have reached that moment of introspection. Haha, I get you you are both saying but doubt that me calling the twitterati cancel culture extremists loonies is adding much fuel to the fire. I might swap to calling them the radical left in future however just to avoid my use of the word loonie becoming the topic of conversation. 34 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I don't agree with the militant left. I roll my eyes quite violently at times. But I tolerate them, because I'm a tolerant person, and it doesn't really matter that much to me. However, if you don't tolerate them and your constantly up in arms about everything they say and do, then that's a symptom of your own intolerance. One day the penny might drop I didn't vote in the last election despite being an ardent Brexiteer. I recall saying something like I didn't like the Tories but I hated Labour. I'm not tied to one particular party and like to see a government being held to account by a strong opposition. If like you I was a Labour supporter, I'd be up in arms against the 'radical left' that are destroying the party and not only making them unelectable but an ineffectual opposition and laughing stock as well. Rolling your eyes and tolerating them isn't enough imo. Do you roll your eyes and tolerate the stuff the Tories do? Or do you use what they have said or done to have a dig at them at every opportunity? Johnson and Trump aren't nice people imo but are likely to hold onto power for a long time because people think the alternatives are far worse. I sometimes think I care more for the future of the Labour party than many of its members... As a Labour supporter what the Tories do is not really any of your business, what is your business is promoting people and policies that the masses will vote for, to get Labour into office and a position of power. Listening to fringe ideologies that due to the power of social media and political correctness appear far more influential than they really are continues to lead Labour the path of irrelevance. If you really want to make a difference, before you can fight the Tories you have to fight the fringes of your own party. Rolling your eyes or mocking the people that do stand up for free speech and against identity politics or cancel culture will leave you in the position you currently are - watching the Tories do exactly what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I keep trying to make the same point, but he's yet to have reached that moment of introspection. I don't agree with the militant left. I roll my eyes quite violently at times. But I tolerate them, because I'm a tolerant person, and it doesn't really matter that much to me. However, if you don't tolerate them and your constantly up in arms about everything they say and do, then that's a symptom of your own intolerance. One day the penny might drop You aren't tolerant. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 11/02/2020 at 10:03, Van Wolfie said: I can't help but feel that the assistance to Flybe is smelling a bit off, right now. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51453196 I get that the government has promises to keep in terms of improving regional connectivity but when Flybe is owned by profitable airlines - and now they are giving up slots at Heathrow, to give to Virgin. It smacks of asset stripping by the owners, just as there is talk of part nationalisation. Not to mention the state aid question and impact on carbon priorities also. I can see this becoming a bit of a mess. According to Amber Rudd when announcing the bailout, the government have an obligation to maintain connectivity of the UK regions, such as Cornwall and the Channel Islands. Which must have been a relief to her brother, who's the boss of a Guernsey based hedge fund. Not to mention her husband, who also works for the same offshore, tax haven employer. On 11/02/2020 at 13:15, Van Wolfie said: So, HS2 is signed off and a likely £100bn+ bill to show for it. Thoughts?. I'm reminded of Blackadder Goes Forth, when I consider this massive vanity project, to get everyone to London a few minutes quicker.... "Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin" I expect that Phase 1 will end up costing more still, followed by the scrapping of phase 2. It seems so I'll thought out to me. Some of the costs of the 2nd phase include tunnelling straight under EMA so the line can stop at Toton, around a mile from the Nottingham tram terminus with little chance of joining the two together. Why not put the station at the airport, still an equal distance between 2 large cities, with loads of land around for the infrastructure necessary. Extend the tram to the airport for connection to Nottm, which would be easy and relatively cheap, and run the mooted Derby tram from there too. Then you could fly into EMA, and have a 45 minute transfer into central London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, alexxxxx said: Well I don't think it's closing down, I think it will still offer accounts to those in the rest of the EU, however it's berlin/German banking license will no longer be valid here. Not sure why you'd want to hold one of these accounts anyway as they don't even have fsc protection and you'd be dealing with German authorities if it went down. Pretty sure they have 3 years to transition? So they could get a licence if they really wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: According to Amber Rudd when announcing the bailout, the government have an obligation to maintain connectivity of the UK regions, such as Cornwall and the Channel Islands. Which must have been a relief to her brother, who's the boss of a Guernsey based hedge fund. Not to mention her husband, who also works for the same offshore, tax haven employer. It seems so I'll thought out to me. Some of the costs of the 2nd phase include tunnelling straight under EMA so the line can stop at Toton, around a mile from the Nottingham tram terminus with little chance of joining the two together. Why not put the station at the airport, still an equal distance between 2 large cities, with loads of land around for the infrastructure necessary. Extend the tram to the airport for connection to Nottm, which would be easy and relatively cheap, and run the mooted Derby tram from there too. Then you could fly into EMA, and have a 45 minute transfer into central London. You can't fly to London and get a 45 minute transfer into London! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Yep. Do as I say, not as I do is the mantra. Peterson is prescription drug-addled crybaby currently undergoing rehab for the umpteenth time, on this occasion in Moscow and Creepy Carl tweets rape jokes that are apparently satire and thinks paedophilia is ok. Nothing to see here though... Despite someone stating previously in this thread that Jordan Peterson is my hero I had to google what you were on about. It turns out that he's not uploaded a video in a couple of months because he has indeed been battling prescription drug addiction, nearly died a couple of times apparently according to a video I've just watched from his daughter. It appears that Peterson has been going through the mill a bit since his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer - you should read some of the things people have been saying it it on twitter, the same kind of people that advocate removing others for 'hate speech' are saying some truly awful things. The attacks online about his health during his recovery really shows how many snakes there are on the left. Resentment is their highest value. It doesn't matter what side of the political fence you are on, taking glee in his current predicament or using it to score points is pretty low. With regards to Carl Benjamin, the 'wouldn't even rape you' thing has been done to death and him allegedly saying' paedophilia is okay' is outright fake news As you said, nothing to see here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: Some of the costs of the 2nd phase include tunnelling straight under EMA I think they've dropped that idea ,last I heard they were going around EMA .This according to a neighbour that's on the local steering group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, King Kevin said: I think they've dropped that idea ,last I heard they were going around EMA .This according to a neighbour that's on the local steering group. Even easier to build a station then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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