The Politics Thread 2020

[TuffLuff]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

Not worked up, its just a nonsense that’s all. Will I have to read a statement that Germans are nice people now before I watch The Great Escape?

My personal theory is that they are doing it so people get angry and go ‘they’ve gone too far’. Essentially PC gone mad for the 2020’s. Although I’m just being a bit daft, I mean there’s worse things out there that does happen!

Youll have the film you weren’t planning to watch on HBO back soon matey and it’ll be forgotten about. 

[Eddie]

32 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Not worked up, its just a nonsense that’s all. Will I have to read a statement that Germans are nice people now before I watch The Great Escape?

More likely an announcement from the Automobile Association about the dangers of trying to leap fences on a motorcycle without wearing a crash helmet, or a health and safety lecture about locks on 'coolers'.

[Stive Pesley]

20 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Not worked up, its just a nonsense that’s all. Will I have to read a statement that Germans are nice people now before I watch The Great Escape?

If the Germans campaign hard enough for it, probably yeah

It is interesting though that this stuff leaves an imprint. As a little kid we'd always play cowboys and indians, because we loved watching the old films - and it was always portrayed that the cowboys were the good guys and the indians were the bad guys. We never questioned that, and no one taught us any different.

Still - I suppose it's funny that America is examining it's social conscience over slavery when it's a nation built on the blood of the indigenous population (who they have graciously allowed to live in impoverished communities on reservations)

 

[sage]

23 hours ago, maxjam said:

Although I do think is requires urgent action - just urgent action that's unbiased reality.

I seem to recall being roundly mocked on here for suggesting we seriously need to consider population control.  

?

I agree with you on this point.

The Green New Deal could be seen as a foot brake on a car that is out of control.

Population control is the handbrake.

Where I disagree is it is never too soon to start breaking when you are out of control.

 

[Stive Pesley]

34 minutes ago, sage said:

Population control is the handbrake.

Ironically, It's when Mrs Pesley starts yanking on my handbrake that population control becomes an issue

[Rev]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-dominic-cummings-hacked-eu-referendum-lloyd-hardy

I thought this was quite interesting, and made me thankful I'm not a social media user.

[cstand]

21 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm starting to become optimistic about politics and social change for the first time in a while. 

Brexit and Trump back in 2016 were a real low point in my eyes. I felt the regressive politics of populism would be sending us to a more unhealthy place.

I wasn't actually as fed up with the last General Election as I should have been. Finally the architects of Brexit were in control, and only they could now be blamed if it turned out badly.

Obviously, we then had the tragedy of Coronavirus, which has horribly exposed populism for what is really is. Rank incompetence resulting in a huge numbers of deaths and little planning of how to properly get out of this mess. Clearly this pandemic has been a disaster, but a hope for the future is we now realise we need proper people to lead us in the future. Not just people who will just agree with the egomaniac in charge.

Now we are seeing social change in action as thousands and thousands of younger people are demanding that the West finally looks at itself critically. Maybe we can carve a future based on a respect of all people and finally start showing some humility and self awareness? Maybe future elections will be based on hope and a positive vision of the future, rather than demonising the other and harking back to an imaginary golden age, where the poverty at home was wonderful compared to our brutality abroad?

 

Digging up the past to blame people of today is a very dangerous game and letting the mob mentality get away with taking the law into their own hands will mean other people who feel injustice will do exactly the same.

Only ever complaining about what is bad in society all the time will only end in tears. People should reflect on the good just as much. I do not share the view that politics will get better it will be more divisive than ever in my opinion hopefully I am wrong.

Talking of the good Eddie knows his beers.

 

 

 

[MaltRam]

Little Britain is racist now, it seems. Lucas and Walliams playing black people was wrong. They can play people of a different gender, nationality, sexuality...but not a different skin tone. 

Gone with the Wind is also an affront to civilization, as of this week. It reflects the time it was made and the times it portrays and is an acknowledged classic, but it's now too nasty to be allowed. 

Winston Churchill, the man who arguably saved western Europe of not the whole world from arguably the most hideous racist in history is now a racist, and should have his statue defaced and torn down.

At this point, I can't take any of it seriously. It's a victim industry. The strides this country has made in my lifetime are immense, The legal framework and social conditions are such that in a generation there will be no racism in the UK. Now stop caving in windows and duck off home to mummy, spoilt studenty types, because no matter how much righteous indignation you bristle with, you look like a Bamford to me.

In the USA, they have a racism problem. We haven't. We have the odd loser, the odd old buffer who thinks it's still 1958, and the odd raving nutcase.

And no, I won't be buying any Yorkshire ducking tea. Tell me what to think? baalocks.

[sonofmidnight]

6 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

But was the Coliseum erected as a tribute to those crimes 

Probably a good place to draw the line would be "statues celebrating people who did stuff that would no longer be acceptable in modern times"

A good suggestion for drawing the line. I think we all know what is unacceptable these days. My big problem is knowing what is acceptable. It's got to the stage where whatever is said somebody is offended and then there is unpleasantness and aggression. Best really if we smile sweetly, no sorry can't do that now we've got to wear masks, and keep our opinions to ourselves. 

[Highgate]

21 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

Little Britain is racist now, it seems. Lucas and Walliams playing black people was wrong. They can play people of a different gender, nationality, sexuality...but not a different skin tone. 

Gone with the Wind is also an affront to civilization, as of this week. It reflects the time it was made and the times it portrays and is an acknowledged classic, but it's now too nasty to be allowed. 

Winston Churchill, the man who arguably saved western Europe of not the whole world from arguably the most hideous racist in history is now a racist, and should have his statue defaced and torn down.

At this point, I can't take any of it seriously. It's a victim industry. The strides this country has made in my lifetime are immense, The legal framework and social conditions are such that in a generation there will be no racism in the UK. Now stop caving in windows and duck off home to mummy, spoilt studenty types, because no matter how much righteous indignation you bristle with, you look like a Bamford to me.

In the USA, they have a racism problem. We haven't. We have the odd loser, the odd old buffer who thinks it's still 1958, and the odd raving nutcase.

And no, I won't be buying any Yorkshire ducking tea. Tell me what to think? baalocks.

Well Churchill clearly was a racist, there is no point in ignoring it.  Even by the standards of his day apparently.  Not only a racist but a die-hard imperialist, who was steadfastly against self-determination for nations within the Empire for as long as it was practical.   What is the point in denying any of that?   That being said, it's still the case that he was an admirable and inspirational war time leader for Britain and that the world absolutely owes him a debt of gratitude for his tireless fight against Hitler.  Incidentally, the man to whom the world is probably even more indebted to for defeating Hitler is Stalin.  Who was obviously an utterly deplorable human being. So that's a weird position to be in....but that's history, complicated and nuanced.  

And no, Churchill's statue doesn't deserve that.

[MaltRam]

.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

On 09/06/2020 at 15:01, GboroRam said:

Hmm...backtracking now from the Brexit faction? I thought we were in the driving seat, it's the easiest deal in history, we hold all the cards?

So now you're not so sure it's a good idea?

Oven ready. We just need to get an oven.

[Alph]

History is full of rapists, slavers, murderers, paedophiles, racists, bigots, xenophobes, homophobia, genocidal maniacs that have carved out kingdoms, republics, empires and toppled dictators and or tyrants. If you judge them by how we shaped the world today

Can we have Winston Churchill and Saladin to the courtroom please. 

Mehmed The Conquerer. Today you stand before us accused of the use of men and women as slaves. How do you plead? 

Today sees the trial of the prophet Muhammed. Muhammed stands accused of grooming a young girl called Aisha. It is believed Muhammed was a member of a paedophile ring including many major celebrities including Richard II King Of England. 

In sports news Spartacus could face a 5 match ban for his part in an arson attack on a sleepy village in Capua. "They invaded Thrace without mercy. This is what they deserve" said a source. The Romans were unavailable to comment but insist justice will be delivered. 

Over to Hannibal for the weather. 

Thanks.  You will need umbrellas tomorrow as light showers of spears are expected to fall upon wild Iberian tribes. Brighter spells are expected in the afternoon. So if you plan to celebrate Napoleon's Law Of May 1802 then don't start them parties until after Lunch,  guys. 

Just booked a flight to Istanbul. That Mehmed is having it. Taking white people as slaves. The bar steward. If there's one thing that makes my blood boil it's the constant reminder of the Ottoman Empire. He is a symbol of oppression. It's alright saying "yeah but look what he did for the muslims". I'm not arsed. Pass the axe

[i-Ram]

Ant & Dec out with their apologies now, hot on the heels of Walliams and Lucas. Jack Smethurst really should be seeking a safe house, and Warren Mitchell’s family are no doubt relieved they had him cremated rather than buried.

[Rev]

21 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Today sees the trial of the prophet Muhammed. Muhammed stands accused of grooming a young girl called Aisha. It is believed Muhammed was a member of a paedophile ring including many major celebrities including Richard II King Of England. 

I'd love to see the court reporters sketch.

[Rev]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Ant & Dec out with their apologies now, hot on the heels of Walliams and Lucas. Jack Smethurst really should be seeking a safe house, and Warren Mitchell’s family are no doubt relieved they had him cremated rather than buried.

Tbf the removal of Little Britain and Come fly with me must have boosted Britbox subscription no end.

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Ironically, It's when Mrs Pesley starts yanking on my handbrake that population control becomes an issue

FDSHPD

[Alph]

At least blackface and all that comedy is relevant. 

Winston Churchill statues among others are monuments to laying the path we all walked on and shaped the country we have today. 

If you think Britain is racist then blame modern day Brits and push for change. Don't blame Winston Churchill etc for not being a 21st century man in the 20th century. 

By all means give an education of the attitudes of the times and open up a darker side of history. 

Show the not so glorious past of the British Empire. Make people see the injustices. 

But these aren't monuments to racism. They are monuments of the shaping of Britain. 

How have statues and war memorials come into this? They represent oppression? They represent glory in war and the killing? That's part of the story of our world. 

Delete it and it will achieve equality? Riiiiight. 

Saw the Christopher Columbus Statue beheaded. He's a symbol of racism? No. His story tells you the story of colonisation. A story about shaping the world today. 

He was a man of his time. You can't drag him into court now. Teach how undoubtedly cruel he was. Build a bloody monument next to him of William Wells Brown. Make black history a bigger part of American history. Make the modern world reflect the times. Don't make the old world reflect the times. Don't burn stories

I swear if you asked some people to fix a roof tile they'd bring your house down rather than go up a ladder. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

9 hours ago, Highgate said:

Well Churchill clearly was a racist, there is no point in ignoring it.  Even by the standards of his day apparently.  Not only a racist but a die-hard imperialist, who was steadfastly against self-determination for nations within the Empire for as long as it was practical.   What is the point in denying any of that?   That being said, it's still the case that he was an admirable and inspirational war time leader for Britain and that the world absolutely owes him a debt of gratitude for his tireless fight against Hitler.  Incidentally, the man to whom the world is probably even more indebted to for defeating Hitler is Stalin.  Who was obviously an utterly deplorable human being. So that's a weird position to be in....but that's history, complicated and nuanced.  

And no, Churchill's statue doesn't deserve that.

The thing to remember about Churchill is that he was essentially a late Victorian cavalryman adventurer (see his gun toting Boer war correspondent antics).

This was a double -edged sword (a nice shiny 1890s one), it gave him the testicular fortitude to face down Hitler, but yes, he had some distasteful views by reasonable standards.

But he saved the world from a Dark Age. He could have accepted a sweeeeeet deal from Hitler (one day we will find out what Hess was doing), and Hitler would have eventually conquered most of the world. 

The Colosseum is a good case in point concerning old statues and the like.

Pulling it down now would be a bad thing, as it is a church - it's been consecrated by the Pope because so many Christians were killed there. The interpretation of the place is balanced - impressive miracle of engineering for the times, monolith to Roman imperials might - but also shows what Bamfords they actually were. Latin, roads, blardey blah, but liked nothing more than watching little kids fed to lions for a laugh.

I agree with Britain's first black prof, Sir Geoff Palmer - keep the stuff but explain it right - a balanced interpretation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52965230

 

Talking of monoliths .... Is it timer to moth ball this thread I wonder? Seems to be less and less visitors. 

 

[BondJovi]

6 hours ago, Alpha said:

At least blackface and all that comedy is relevant. 

Winston Churchill statues among others are monuments to laying the path we all walked on and shaped the country we have today. 

If you think Britain is racist then blame modern day Brits and push for change. Don't blame Winston Churchill etc for not being a 21st century man in the 20th century. 

By all means give an education of the attitudes of the times and open up a darker side of history. 

Show the not so glorious past of the British Empire. Make people see the injustices. 

But these aren't monuments to racism. They are monuments of the shaping of Britain. 

How have statues and war memorials come into this? They represent oppression? They represent glory in war and the killing? That's part of the story of our world. 

Delete it and it will achieve equality? Riiiiight. 

Saw the Christopher Columbus Statue beheaded. He's a symbol of racism? No. His story tells you the story of colonisation. A story about shaping the world today. 

He was a man of his time. You can't drag him into court now. Teach how undoubtedly cruel he was. Build a bloody monument next to him of William Wells Brown. Make black history a bigger part of American history. Make the modern world reflect the times. Don't make the old world reflect the times. Don't burn stories

I swear if you asked some people to fix a roof tile they'd bring your house down rather than go up a ladder. 

You wrote what I started and deleted about 5 times last night!