ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 hours ago, i-Ram said: Ant & Dec out with their apologies now, hot on the heels of Walliams and Lucas. Jack Smethurst really should be seeking a safe house, and Warren Mitchell’s family are no doubt relieved they had him cremated rather than buried. I will never go paintballing because of Ant or Dec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 11 hours ago, cstand said: Digging up the past to blame people of today is a very dangerous game and letting the mob mentality get away with taking the law into their own hands will mean other people who feel injustice will do exactly the same. So digging up the past to blame people is a very dangerous game? But continuously banging on about the past to justify current affairs is perfectly safe? Like all those politicians who keep using war time slogans about Brexit. That is not dangerous at all right? When Germans are criticised for the 2nd world war, do their politicians say "well it was the British who invented concentration camps"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 16 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: If the Germans campaign hard enough for it, probably yeah It is interesting though that this stuff leaves an imprint. As a little kid we'd always play cowboys and indians, because we loved watching the old films - and it was always portrayed that the cowboys were the good guys and the indians were the bad guys. We never questioned that, and no one taught us any different. Still - I suppose it's funny that America is examining it's social conscience over slavery when it's a nation built on the blood of the indigenous population (who they have graciously allowed to live in impoverished communities on reservations) I wad reading something recently about how a large proportion if cowboys were black, but they didn't seem to make the cut in those old Westerns. I tell you what, it would be political correctness gone mad if they started to put black cowboys in films. People of colour have been airbrushed out of culture for years. But I'm not aware of that, as they were airbrushed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Highgate said: Well Churchill clearly was a racist, there is no point in ignoring it. Even by the standards of his day apparently. Not only a racist but a die-hard imperialist, who was steadfastly against self-determination for nations within the Empire for as long as it was practical. What is the point in denying any of that? That being said, it's still the case that he was an admirable and inspirational war time leader for Britain and that the world absolutely owes him a debt of gratitude for his tireless fight against Hitler. Incidentally, the man to whom the world is probably even more indebted to for defeating Hitler is Stalin. Who was obviously an utterly deplorable human being. So that's a weird position to be in....but that's history, complicated and nuanced. And no, Churchill's statue doesn't deserve that. Stalin was foreign though init. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 All this apologising for history is a total nonsense! I can apologise for my actions or inactions where necessary. To a certain extent I can apologise for my children and Grandchildren, as I brought them up and influenced their behaviour (maybe). To apologise for my father, grandfather and other ancestors is ludicrous as I had no influence. Similarly with historical action by my country, race, religion. I also think removing statues will work against the agitators. I was only dimly aware of Bristol's role in the slave trade. There was some mention at school but it was so long ago and it was over , so t wasn't really relevant to me. The row over the statue some time ago brought it forward again, but it was just another facet of many aspects of human history to regret. When the statue is consigned to a museum , Bristol's history will again become a bit of local data only. Unknown by millions, forgotten by many, cared about by only a few. If I were of Black heritage would I want my ancestry wiped away like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, FindernRam said: I also think removing statues will work against the agitators. Why do you think that is? Are you suggesting that Britain will become more racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, FindernRam said: I was only dimly aware of Bristol's role in the slave trade. There was some mention at school but it was so long ago and it was over , so t wasn't really relevant to me. BLM should make t-shirts with this quote on it! Incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: So digging up the past to blame people is a very dangerous game? But continuously banging on about the past to justify current affairs is perfectly safe? Like all those politicians who keep using war time slogans about Brexit. That is not dangerous at all right? When Germans are criticised for the 2nd world war, do their politicians say "well it was the British who invented concentration camps"? I work for a European company the CEO is German I can ask him when I am back in the office. I think I can say with confidence if he thought German/UK relations were damaged by an alleged dangerous war time slogan during Brexit he would not have committed to spend millions into our company post Brexit. Why should I criticise the Germans of today for the 2nd world war it would make no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: BLM should make t-shirts with this quote on it! Incredible! Indeed. "It wasn't really relevant to me" is going to be the new "I Can't breathe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 59 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I wad reading something recently about how a large proportion if cowboys were black, but they didn't seem to make the cut in those old Westerns. I tell you what, it would be political correctness gone mad if they started to put black cowboys in films. People of colour have been airbrushed out of culture for years. But I'm not aware of that, as they were airbrushed out. Westerns seem not to be a film of your choice, May be the Apache Indians killed them all, Or maybe your using a failed racist argument. There's plenty more if you care to look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, cstand said: I work for a European company the CEO is German I can ask him when I am back in the office. I think I can say with confidence if he thought German/UK relations were damaged by an alleged dangerous war time slogan during Brexit he would not have committed to spend millions into our company post Brexit. Why should I criticise the Germans of today for the 2nd world war it would make no sense whatsoever. I don't think the danger is that German's might stop doing business with us in the short term. The damage is what happens to our population when constantly bombarded by war time rhetoric. I don't think increasing nationalistic fervour is a positive way to win political debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Eddie said: Indeed. "It wasn't really relevant to me" is going to be the new "I Can't breathe". Can I ask Eddie, and @ariotofmyown, what positive actions you have taken over the years to protest against, and try to eradicate racism? Genuine question. I don’t mean just having positive relationships, and being friendly and courteous to others of different skin colour. Those in my view should be givens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I wad reading something recently about how a large proportion if cowboys were black, but they didn't seem to make the cut in those old Westerns. I tell you what, it would be political correctness gone mad if they started to put black cowboys in films. People of colour have been airbrushed out of culture for years. But I'm not aware of that, as they were airbrushed out. And the solution imo is to make new history. Tell stories of the old world that the modern world wants to listen to. Tell stories of black cowboys. Tell stories of black slaves who became free men. Build monuments to black people who shaped their country. I actually know very little of black history but I love history. I know Malcolm X, Martin Luther, Rosa Parks, Muhammed Ali. That's it. I don't know who the first slave was to become a free man. I don't know any native American warriors I don't think (I don't know much about American history tbh) Teach it. Build it. It fits the modern world. Let's not start from year zero. Redistribute wealth. Sorry Lord Hairyballs VIII but this land was bought using money from slavery. It will be auctioned off on 1st January 0000. The past explains where we are and how we got here. It's full of inspiration. But it doesn't tell you how we get to the future. Erasing history or hiding history breaks my heart. I love to read about Hannibal, Napoleon, Saladin, Ottomans etc etc. I can't believe anyone can suggest these stories and monuments are oppressive etc today. They are our past, man. I'm proud to be white british and I have no problem with a proud Turkish Muslim. I don't care if in history we should be enemies. I don't care if his Great Grandad x10 took mine as a slave. I care how we got where we are. It's fascinating. There are people in our past to celebrate. An attack on British history is tragic imo. Completely stupid way of creating equality. Teach me the history of Black Brits. (I'm not sure if I'm arguing at this point or just really angry about any of our (humanity) history being attacked.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, TramRam said: Westerns seem not to be a film of your choice, May be the Apache Indians killed them all, Or maybe your using a failed racist argument. There's plenty more if you care to look Not sure that a few pics of black cowboys in films means that BAME have always been reflected fairly in culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: BLM should make t-shirts with this quote on it! Incredible! All lives matter especially black people would be better t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: Not sure that a few pics of black cowboys in films means that BAME have always been reflected fairly in culture. This is your quote. "I wad reading something recently about how a large proportion if cowboys were black, but they didn't seem to make the cut in those old Westerns." You can squirm all you want, I've proved you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: BLM should make t-shirts with this quote on it! Incredible! 12 minutes ago, Eddie said: Indeed. "It wasn't really relevant to me" is going to be the new "I Can't breathe". Maybe we should add "self flagellation due to sins of our ancestors" to the national curriculum, to make it a bit more relevant to children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, TramRam said: This is your quote. "I wad reading something recently about how a large proportion if cowboys were black, but they didn't seem to make the cut in those old Westerns." You can squirm all you want, I've proved you wrong. Apologies, I was wrong and what I should have said was "but they didn't seem to make the cut in most of those old Westerns" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I don't think the danger is that German's might stop doing business with us in the short term. The damage is what happens to our population when constantly bombarded by war time rhetoric. I don't think increasing nationalistic fervour is a positive way to win political debates. I think I can say with confidence investing millions is not short term. Keep criticising the people of this country for Brexit will only make people be more nationalistic, the debate has been done over and over its time to move to the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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