maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I think identity politics might be the bane of your life. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "identity politics" in real life. Or "culture wars". Or "antifa". Okay well all I can say is google it.... There are pages of the stuff. Look on Amazon, pages and pages of books on the stuff. Even the Guardian have done numerous articles on it, such as this one; https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/25/identity-politics-dividing-britons-says-equality-chief You don't even have to acknowledge the term to see that 'something' is having an effect on society. 19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: In other real life chat, over the past 3 or 4 years, if I've ever discussed Brexit with someone who voted leave, I just say I'm worried that loads of people will lose their jobs. The leaver usually just shrugs and doesn't really respond, almost like they didn't really think about that possibility. Personally speaking I view Brexiteers as glass half full kinda people confident in our own future. I'm not going to predict what may or may not happen but trust that we can become better as a result of our independence. The recent Nissan story is an example of this - everyone feared that they would leave the UK, in reality didn't they recently announce they were leaving the EU to concentrate on their UK facilities? Its early days yet, no sooner than we announce our leaving we get hit with coronavirus. I am however optimistic about the deal we'll get and our opportunities in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Highgate said: Oh, I had read the whole post, I just quoted part of it. I'm just struggling to understand the direct similarities here. I see and agree with your general point that in any movement, be it an independence movement or that calling for racial equality, there will exist a diversity of opinions. Measures attempting to address the issue that will often satisfy some will not satisfy others. That much is true, certainly. But why the 1921 Treaty negotiations are particularly relevant I'm less clear on. Leaders really should speak at times of crisis and unrest, that's an essential part of being a leader. All Boris had to do really, and I haven't watched what he said, was acknowledge that problems with racism in the UK still exist, sympathize with those still suffer because of it (a bit tricky in Boris' case given his own unfortunate comments in the past) and agree that the cause of the protesters is a just one, both in terms of lingering if lessened institutional racism and because of the everyday personal racism. Then reassure the protesters that they are being listened to and if he could lay out some broad policies to tackle the problems then all the better. I don't know if that would have helped...but it would have been the right thing for him to do. The problem Boris' would face is whether people would trust him to do the things he said he would do. Boris is not exactly synonymous with honesty and sincerity. The situation facing Collins was quite different. Sign this Treaty now and you will get for your country some, but not all of your demands nor the full sovereignty you desire. Don't sign it and we will invade and occupy your country again with such overwhelming force that there is no way you'll be able to defend yourselves. Make the decision now, you don't have the time to consult with De Valera, as we will withdraw the offer if there is any delay. And as you rightly pointed out and Collins correctly predicted, the former option was also likely to mean his own death. As difficult a situation as Boris is in right now, I think he has it slightly easier than Collins had. Certainly he was in a harder position. It was never meant to replicate an exact situation just a reasonable analogy to highlight how make quick promises amongst differing opinions can create more problems than it solves. Thinks will differ region to region. If expectation is based on assumption from soundbites and broad policy it is a fuse on dynamite waiting for a new match . Who is going to lead discussion for these protestors ? There is no one body as far as I can see What is being asked for that's reasonable and what isn't ? Are these decisions on a local level ? Based on that, my opinion is the less he's says at the moment the better. Those questions are generic by the way. I don't expect anyone to have an answer at the moment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 And the cultural vandalism extends to the poor fella's wikipedia page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 23 minutes ago, maxjam said: I'm not going to predict what may or may not happen but trust that we can become better as a result of our independence. Hmm...backtracking now from the Brexit faction? I thought we were in the driving seat, it's the easiest deal in history, we hold all the cards? So now you're not so sure it's a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Hmm...backtracking now from the Brexit faction? I thought we were in the driving seat, it's the easiest deal in history, we hold all the cards? So now you're not so sure it's a good idea? 27 minutes ago, maxjam said: I am however optimistic about the deal we'll get and our opportunities in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: And the cultural vandalism extends to the poor fella's wikipedia page That your inspiring jape of the day to start an argument then . You need some new material or you'll be a dinosaur like Jim Davidson. Believe we covered statues yesterday. If you find amusement in the fact some don't appreciate mob vandalism and causing more upset might enhance your day all power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, maxjam said: The major problem with The Green New Deal was that it tried to deliver Utopia now - it tried to run a marathon in record time before it could walk https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2019/02/11/the-problem-with-the-green-new-deal I agree that we should take more care of the environment. Its probably my #1 concern tbh - I have often said if we had a PR system I would vote Green. The Green New Deal was far to radical though, not only did it cost trillions it promoted things such as banning all air travel, banning nuclear power, moving to 100% green energy, retrofitting every building in America, banning meat, giving away free money for those that don't want to work, etc. Utopian ideas with little practical thought put into them. https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2019/04/29/five-practical-problems-for-the-green-new-deal/#449917553e8a https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/15/the-trouble-with-the-green-new-deal-223977 I don't think your claim that your claim that the environment is your #1 concern chimes with you saying that you'd vote for Trump (albeit reluctantly) over AOC in a presidential election. If the environment were really were your number 1 concern you'd vote for anyone other than Trump. Anyone! AOC, Jeremy Corbyn, Patrick Bamford, Satan, A Forest fan, Ayatolloh Khamenei, Thanos, Literally anyone, other than Trump. His record on the environment couldn't possibly be worse and he intends to continue on that path for the next 4 years. The Green New Deal doesn't call for banning those things you mentioned. It's a starting point in a discussion that needs to happen. It may be overly optimistic, but the situation is urgent. People for whom the environment genuinely is their number 1 concern are generally delighted that the non-binding Green New Deal resolution came before Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Highgate said: I don't think your claim that your claim that the environment is your #1 concern chimes with you saying that you'd vote for Trump (albeit reluctantly) over AOC in a presidential election. If the environment were really were your number 1 concern you'd vote for anyone other than Trump. Anyone! AOC, Jeremy Corbyn, Patrick Bamford, Satan, A Forest fan, Ayatolloh Khamenei, Thanos, Literally anyone, other than Trump. His record on the environment couldn't possibly be worse and he intends to continue on that path for the next 4 years. The Green New Deal doesn't call for banning those things you mentioned. It's a starting point in a discussion that needs to happen. It may be overly optimistic, but the situation is urgent. People for whom the environment genuinely is their number 1 concern are generally delighted that the non-binding Green New Deal resolution came before Congress. Page 1 of https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal Meet the Green New Deal The Green New Deal starts with a WWII-type mobilization to address the grave threat posed by climate change, transitioning our country to 100% clean energy by 2030. Clean energy does not include natural gas, biomass, nuclear power or the oxymoron “clean coal.” As per one the links I posted previously there simply isn't enough space to achieve that goal. This was just one of many massive flaws with the proposal - and thats just one of the environmental aspects of it. The Far left progressive agenda was also interwoven into many of its ideas; I don't deny that environmental issues are hugely important, but The Green New Deal was part fantasy, part loony left propaganda as alluded to by the left leaning USA Today, 'Whew. Of course, we all want public transit to be clean and folks to have access to healthy, affordable food, but you can't wave a magic wand to make it happen with a congressional resolution. Claiming to solve one giant mess of a global problem like climate change with a revolutionary plan for change that doesn't take into account basic economics, civil rights and democracy is dishonest. Claiming to be able to solve that problem and every other problem you can think of at the same time is certifiable.' https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/12/ocasio-cortez-green-new-deal-mitch-mcconnell-senate-vote-column/2849830002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Decided to step away from the forum for a bit . Your all generally ok . A bit fiery sometimes and views differ . I certainly don't mind that and agree with people on some things and not on others. Lifes boring if were all the same. But I prefer a post with point for discussion. Bit too much with some at the moment putting things on here for the purpose of causing a reaction and it's been happening a while. Not sure where the enjoyment in that is but there you go. it's supposed to be a football forum after all, so i'll be back when we restart hopefully. Take it easy and stay well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Decided to step away from the forum for a bit . Your all generally ok . A bit fiery sometimes and views differ . I certainly don't mind that and agree with people on some things and not on others. Lifes boring if were all the same. But I prefer a post with point for discussion. Bit too much with some at the moment putting things on here for the purpose of causing a reaction and it's been happening a while. Not sure where the enjoyment in that is but there you go. it's supposed to be a football forum after all, so i'll be back when we restart hopefully. Take it easy and stay well. Yup, been thinking the same myself for a while. There are some people on here I enjoy discussing topics with and others with which its become a chore. I guess people think the same of me as well - certainly the latter ? We've all got our own opinions and no one ever seems to budge. There is increasingly less discussion just more back and forth, which despite trying to use facts and figures as far as I can to back up my own opinions I'll admit I am apart of. We're in strange times atm and (without wanting to cause offence with this post) think the narrative is being led (in the media) in a less than honest fashion and the consequences of certain current actions haven't been thought through thoroughly by all they effect. As I said last week the next 6-12 months could be the defining months of our lifetime - who knows where we will be this time next year. I can't keep away completely otherwise you lot just get carried away ? but I'm gonna try and significantly scale back posting for a bit. Its a good job the football is nearly back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, maxjam said: Yup, been thinking the same myself for a while. There are some people on here I enjoy discussing topics with and others with which its become a chore. I guess people think the same of me as well - certainly the latter ? We've all got our own opinions and no one ever seems to budge. There is increasingly less discussion just more back and forth, which despite trying to use facts and figures as far as I can to back up my own opinions I'll admit I am apart of. We're in strange times atm and (without wanting to cause offence with this post) think the narrative is being led (in the media) in a less than honest fashion and the consequences of certain current actions haven't been thought through thoroughly by all they effect. As I said last week the next 6-12 months could be the defining months of our lifetime - who knows where we will be this time next year. I can't keep away completely otherwise you lot just get carried away ? but I'm gonna try and significantly scale back posting for a bit. Its a good job the football is nearly back... ...which is why I rarely post in here any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: the narrative is being led (in the media) in a less than honest fashion Can't disagree - but when you say media, I think of the big print media - the Mail, Telegraph, the Sun. I'm sure that when you talk about biased, dishonest media, you're thinking about something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, maxjam said: Page 1 of https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal Meet the Green New Deal The Green New Deal starts with a WWII-type mobilization to address the grave threat posed by climate change, transitioning our country to 100% clean energy by 2030. Clean energy does not include natural gas, biomass, nuclear power or the oxymoron “clean coal.” As per one the links I posted previously there simply isn't enough space to achieve that goal. This was just one of many massive flaws with the proposal - and thats just one of the environmental aspects of it. The Far left progressive agenda was also interwoven into many of its ideas; I don't deny that environmental issues are hugely important, but The Green New Deal was part fantasy, part loony left propaganda as alluded to by the left leaning USA Today, 'Whew. Of course, we all want public transit to be clean and folks to have access to healthy, affordable food, but you can't wave a magic wand to make it happen with a congressional resolution. Claiming to solve one giant mess of a global problem like climate change with a revolutionary plan for change that doesn't take into account basic economics, civil rights and democracy is dishonest. Claiming to be able to solve that problem and every other problem you can think of at the same time is certifiable.' https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/12/ocasio-cortez-green-new-deal-mitch-mcconnell-senate-vote-column/2849830002/ I've met it already. I think it's overly optimistic in it's timescale certainly. Everyone knows it has flaws and it's not the finished article, it's just a starting point of a negotiation and the details need to be worked out. But this is the conversation that governments need to be having at home and internationally and that's why the Green New Deal is so welcome as far as I'm concerned. I don't think you are really grasping the urgency of the situation or the magnitude of the task ahead Radical changes do need to be made and a lot of what needs to be done is already technically possible and I don't think it helps to constantly label such proposals and 'loony left propaganda' or whatever else . As I've said before the lunacy would be to continue on the path we are heading seemingly entirely oblivious to the damage we are doing to our environment..... just as Trump intends to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 30 minutes ago, Highgate said: I've met it already. I think it's overly optimistic in it's timescale certainly. Everyone knows it has flaws and it's not the finished article, it's just a starting point of a negotiation and the details need to be worked out. But this is the conversation that governments need to be having at home and internationally and that's why the Green New Deal is so welcome as far as I'm concerned. I don't think you are really grasping the urgency of the situation or the magnitude of the task ahead Radical changes do need to be made and a lot of what needs to be done is already technically possible and I don't think it helps to constantly label such proposals and 'loony left propaganda' or whatever else . As I've said before the lunacy would be to continue on the path we are heading seemingly entirely oblivious to the damage we are doing to our environment..... just as Trump intends to do. Although I do think is requires urgent action - just urgent action that's unbiased reality. I seem to recall being roundly mocked on here for suggesting we seriously need to consider population control. You could pass the most fanciful Green New Deal imaginable but imo it will still only be a temporary fix. The population explosion isn't due to end for decades, if we all want to retain our modern lifestyles we simply have to reduce our populations. At some point a generation is going to have to pay for the sins of the past and 'take one' for the future. The problem with any Green New Deal or population control is that it has to be a worldwide effort - seeing as its not politically correct for us whitey's to tell others what to do anymore, thats not gonna happen. So here we are, Team Elon Musk or bust ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Hands up everyone who is boycotting Yorkshire Tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eddie said: Hands up everyone who is boycotting Yorkshire Tea. I’ve been doing that since hunter got franny sent off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, Archied said: I’ve been doing that since hunter got franny sent off I must confess my first thought was to burst out laughing - I thought it was a re-run of a few weeks ago when an eckythumper was complaining when he found out that Yorkshire Tea wasn't actually grown in Yorkshire. I suspect that was a joke, but I wasn't sure (and I'm still not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Yorkshire Tea,,, pffft. This is where the real twitter tea outrage is at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: Yorkshire Tea,,, pffft. This is where the real twitter tea outrage is at... Over 1m views? Even the kid looks embarrassed at the tea making technique. Probably time to invade the US again, and set them on the straight and narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, maxjam said: Yorkshire Tea,,, pffft. This is where the real twitter tea outrage is at... Holy poo. Not only is that embarrassingly bad tea making, forcing your own child to take part is unspeakable cruelty. Call social services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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