The Politics Thread 2020

[Van der MoodHoover]

11 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

But I've already answered that based on actual reality.

I'm not being evasive. I repeat: Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No. (You even asked 'Yes or no' after I had said this. Hence my not being sure what you are trying to do) That's reality. Would I have him piloting the space shuttle after his writing the the pilot manual and wilfully going against it? No. Would I have him in the kitchen after his being caught whacking off in the mayonaise? No. I'm not sure how many imaginary scenarios you want to go through. I would expect high standards and if people are being dick about it, I wouldn't have them in my team.

We can't have simple affirmatives or negatives when in the politics thread......

we need to speak in Molvanian (from the fictional travel guide "Molvania - a Land Untouched by Modern Dentistry"), which uses the verbal triple negative. So "don't drink the water" becomes "it is not that the water is not undrinkable".....?

So applied to this case, we could address the question "would you sack Kinnock" with the response "it is not that Mr Kinnock would not be unemployed".....

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Did anyone actually expect a police investigation to uncover anything, or think that it was even a serious, detailed investigation in the first place? The only way they'd have realistically do anything is if they'd physically caught him in an illegal act or had irrefutable video proof.

Essentially they've just said there's a lack of evidence, nobody has confessed to anything / broke rank under casual questioning and there's no point us looking into it any further. Hardly a surprise.

Using the lack of action as a point scoring device seems a bit odd to me tbh.

Except that's not true. The police have said he committed a minor offence, but like with everyone else, the force does not punish retrospectively. 

Nobody is using the lack of action for point scoring. 

It confirms he should not have gone to check his eyesight. If that's the reason the police are going to believe. 

[BriggRam]

A STATEMENT FROM THE PRIME MINISTER

Due to the constant pressure from our free press, it has been agreed that Mr Cummings will step down from his current role as a special advisor, with immediate effect. I would like to thank Mr Cummings for his hard work and loyal support.

I have today instructed the Cabinet Office to set in motion a committee to investigate and report on the way the BBC is funded and their neutrality in their reporting. This will be headed up by a member of the House of Lords who will have my full backing.

In addition, I am proud to announce that I have appointed a new member to the House of Lords. The appointment has been made with immediate effect and I would like to congratulate Mr Dominic Cummings as Lord Dom of Durham. He will take the lead role in the investigation into the BBC, with an additional responsibility to report back to Cabinet on the role of Sky TV.

Lord Durham will take a leading role in the final weeks of the Trade Talks with the European Trade Negotiations.

‘If Carlsberg wrote Breaking News’

11

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I change it regularly. 

On this, nobody has convinced me that I am wrong in what I believe. And when I am told by Boris Johnson that it's 'time to move on', it just convinces me that he has no intention of convincing me.

The police say there may have been a minor infringement of the rules on his journey to Bernard Castle but he didn’t break social distancing rules apart from that nothing else was wrong. Seems like a lot of hot air over nothing to me.

[AndyinLiverpool]

12 minutes ago, Norman said:

Having someone in a shadow cabinet doesn't answer the question. 

I would hold MPs to higher standard than advisers. 

Who I hold to a higher standard than candlestick makers, butchers and people who masturbate in kitchens.

You made my point for me by bringing up those job roles. 

It's not really that hard a leap to make. You wouldn't want Walker playing for England, so you wouldn't want him at Derby. Never going to happen. 

You disagree with Cummings' actions, so you must surely disagree as strongly with Kinnock's?

Just wondering where your mock outrage for him is? 

I'm really not sure what your point is.  Clearly, Kinnock's role is as part of the shadow cabinet. You asked me what I would do if I were Starmer and I told you. As I have stated clearly, I wouldn't have him in my shadow cabinet, my team etc etc. 

As it happens, I don't feel as strongly about Kinnock's actions because he didn't write the rules.

But, I will say it again, I wouldn't have him in my team. I know you you know what that means. If he were in my shadow cabinet, I would get rid of him, as I said. If he were not, I wouldn't put him in. I have expressed my anger about a whole range of people breaking the lockdown. Including Kinnock and including friends of mine. Just because I haven't mentioned it on here, doesn't mean I haven't been cross. I don't actually recall a discussion about Kinnock or any of the other MPs in this thread.

The mock outrage is not coming from me. The discussion has been about Cummings. 

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I'm really not sure what your point is.  Clearly, Kinnock's role is as part of the shadow cabinet. You asked me what I would do if I were Starmer and I told you. As I have stated clearly, I wouldn't have him in my shadow cabinet, my team etc etc. 

As it happens, I don't feel as strongly about Kinnock's actions because he didn't write the rules.

But, I will say it again, I wouldn't have him in my team. I know you you know what that means. If he were in my shadow cabinet, I would get rid of him, as I said. If he were not, I wouldn't put him in. I have expressed my anger about a whole range of people breaking the lockdown. Including Kinnock and including friends of mine. Just because I haven't mentioned it on here, doesn't mean I haven't been cross. I don't actually recall a discussion about Kinnock or any of the other MPs in this thread.

The mock outrage is not coming from me. The discussion has been about Cummings. 

All I was doing was asking the question. 

Just making sure you weren't being hypocritical, which I believe you're not. 

I do believe some on here are. And they are showing mock outrage for a number of reasons. Brexit being one.

[AndyinLiverpool]

9 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

The police say there may have been a minor infringement of the rules on his journey to Bernard Castle but he didn’t break social distancing rules apart from that nothing else was wrong. Seems like a lot of hot air over nothing to me.

To me, it's beyond any actual offence or prosecution thereof. 

It's the message it sends out to people who are really struggling. Isolated from friends and family then, suddenly, a key member of the team who created the lockdown travels across the country to be with family, having made very little effort to exhaust options locally. And actually return to work after going home to his wife, who was ill. These are not the actions of someone who has grasped the importance of his role in the public sphere. It sticks in the craw. We can argue about the minutiae of laws broken or not but it simply isn't right to expect people to behave in a certain way then to not do so yourself.

His actions were mindless, selfish, undermining, insulting. That's what I'd have fired him for. It's also no wonder Johnson didn't fire him for it.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

All I was doing was asking the question. 

Just making sure you weren't being hypocritical, which I believe you're not. 

I do believe some on here are. And they are showing mock outrage for a number of reasons. Brexit being one.

I try, as I am sure most people do, not to be hypocritical. Sometimes, as most people do, I fail. When that happens, I call it expedience or unpredictability. It's much easier that way.

[TramRam]

36 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Did anyone actually expect a police investigation to uncover anything, or think that it was even a serious, detailed investigation in the first place? The only way they'd have realistically do anything is if they'd physically caught him in an illegal act or had irrefutable video proof.

Essentially they've just said there's a lack of evidence, nobody has confessed to anything / broke rank under casual questioning and there's no point us looking into it any further. Hardly a surprise.

Using the lack of action as a point scoring device seems a bit odd to me tbh.

Tomorrows Press healines..The Sun-Dodgy Durham Police, The Guardian-Durham Police Chief(Vote Leave)should resign, The Daily Mirror-Rightwing Durham Police fail again, The Daily Mail-Dom Dines out on Durham Police, The Daily Star-Dom ate my Hamster.

[Gritstone Ram]

8 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

To me, it's beyond any actual offence or prosecution thereof. 

It's the message it sends out to people who are really struggling. Isolated from friends and family then, suddenly, a key member of the team who created the lockdown travels across the country to be with family, having made very little effort to exhaust options locally. And actually return to work after going home to his wife, who was ill. These are not the actions of someone who has grasped the importance of his role in the public sphere. It sticks in the craw. We can argue about the minutiae of laws broken or not but it simply isn't right to expect people to behave in a certain way then to not do so yourself.

His actions were mindless, selfish, undermining, insulting. That's what I'd have fired him for. It's also no wonder Johnson didn't fire him for it.

I think you may be giving him a bit too much credit when you say created the lockdown. The lockdown will have been a scientific model that was imposed across most countries in fact it may have been more clear cut if it was like France where you needed a permit to leave your house. 

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

It's Dave, actually. Out of interest, would you have sacked Kinnock if he was an adviser to Starmer? 

It’s irrelevant line of thinking Dominic Dave ‘The Norman’ Cummings and anyone who bothered to think about it would know it’s a useless debate. You know this as well as I do.

If you were bothered with anybody else’s opinions aside when you want to control the line of thinking you’d note the line with most people in this thread, it isn’t about what he did but about the deceit and covering up around what he did. Heck if you were paying attention you’d know there was no point asking me that question because I’d noted that I didn’t really find much wrong on a human level with what he did. That alone proves what the real interest here because you have no idea what and who you are debating with and have no interest either.

 

[jono]

5 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

And categorically suggesting that there is a connection, even more so. Desperate in fact.

Oh come on mate. He is disliked by his political opponents and some in his own party as well. That’s the real reason.

To suggest that this has anything really to do with interpreting lockdown rules as opposed to pure party politics just doesn’t stand up. 

My mate brought a jigsaw round the other day and we had a chat And a laugh on the doorstep. I can’t honestly say that we were 2.0 metres apart .. might have slipped to about 1.7. He’ll say he dropped it off on the way to a job .. essential ? Yes .. mental well-being for an aging person in our household. .. Just about everyone has done something that could be interpreted as breaking the rules.

The rules are there to assist those lacking in common sense .. as the saying goes .. for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. How many of the prats on the beach are being fined. ? This isn’t a one rule for them thing .. this is political games. Cummings has embarrassed to govt, sure,  but it’s being inflated way beyond measure. We are in the territory of a wink and a grin when our player “wins” a free kick and their player is a cheating bar steward ... it’s pathetic 

[GboroRam]

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Not so much offended, just I think it opens a door that you might otherwise close if other religious images start getting posted. As we were.

If I'm honest I don't think it was a picture of the real messiah, probably some bloke dressed up as him. It was more about the other JC. 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, Norman said:

Let's be honest, all of this aside 40 percent of the population vote one colour all the time, 40 percent vote the other colour, some weirdos vote for a colour that isn't red or blue and very few change their minds. 

That's more sad, if you ask me. It doesn't matter what anybody in any party does, the vast majority will vote the same way regardless.

Do you think people are going to waver voting Conservative on 3 years time because of Cummings? 

And it's the same in the Labour Party.

Most people are dicks, and we all have many, many faults. To pretend otherwise is futile. Humans are massively flawed.

Your probably right , 

every now and again I get daft enough to stick my head out above the parapet and expect better , daft bugger 

sad part is how much worse it really is now , there’s nothing new with Cummings affair but time was that when ministers knew when the game was up and took the medicine when caught out ,,, not now , we are on a very rocky path

[Rev]

12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If I'm honest I don't think it was a picture of the real messiah, probably some bloke dressed up as him. It was more about the other JC. 

Jim Caviezel?

[FindernRam]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I try, as I am sure most people do, not to be hypocritical. Sometimes, as most people do, I fail. When that happens, I call it expedience or unpredictability. It's much easier that way.

I'm not going to call you names but in the hours since I asked a seemingly simple question it seems that like Boris you are shifting your ground and hoping it will go away.

My reading of your position is that Cummings should go but not the MPs.. confirm please

 

[TramRam]

22 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If I'm honest I don't think it was a picture of the real messiah, probably some bloke dressed up as him. It was more about the other JC. 

Right at the end ☺️

 

[RamNut]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

Who I hold to a higher standard than candlestick makers, butchers and people who masturbate in kitchens.

? 
do you mean bakers?

[i-Ram]

28 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If I'm honest I don't think it was a picture of the real messiah, probably some bloke dressed up as him. It was more about the other JC. 

John Cleese?

[AndyinLiverpool]

11 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

I'm not going to call you names but in the hours since I asked a seemingly simple question it seems that like Boris you are shifting your ground and hoping it will go away.

My reading of your position is that Cummings should go but not the MPs.. confirm please

 

I'm not going over it again. My position is laid out across many posts. Read them and come to whatever conclusion you want. Or don't read them and come to whatever conclusion you want. It's up to you.