The Politics Thread 2020

[AndyinLiverpool]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

Let's be honest, all of this aside 40 percent of the population vote one colour all the time, 40 percent vote the other colour, some weirdos vote for a colour that isn't red or blue and very few change their minds. 

That's more sad, if you ask me. It doesn't matter what anybody in any party does, the vast majority will vote the same way regardless.

Do you think people are going to waver voting Conservative on 3 years time because of Cummings? 

And it's the same in the Labour Party.

Most people are dicks, and we all have many, many faults. To pretend otherwise is futile. Humans are massively flawed.

Indeed. He who never changes his mind has no mind to change.

One thing I will note about the distant General Election is that people may not think too much about Cummings' trip by then but there's plenty of scope for more shenanigans en route to 2024. 

Plus, imagine the fun we can have along the way with 'What would Dom do?' or 'What has Dom said?' type questions for Johnson at every turn.

[Gritstone Ram]

1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Indeed. He who never changes his mind has no mind to change.

One thing I will note about the distant General Election is that people may not think too much about Cummings' trip by then but there's plenty of scope for more shenanigans en route to 2024. 

Plus, imagine the fun we can have along the way with 'What would Dom do?' or 'What has Dom said?' type questions for Johnson at every turn.

So will you change your mind?

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Sorry to be nitpicking, but in some parts of Cardiff walking whilst eating a bag of chips is picnicking.

As someone who lived for a while in South Wales and spent some Saturday evenings in Cardiff, I wouldn't advise doing anything that could encumber your escape, like eating chips

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I thought I did. It's for the people of Aberavon, Durham North, Cardiff South and Penarth and Birmingham Hall Green to decide. As far as I'm aware, Vaughan Gething was not picnicking but was walking eating a bag of chips. Although I do believe that Gething shouldn't have kept his government job after an unrelated incident involving a colleague in a Zoom meeting.

There are ways of getting rid of MPs. They are not the same as SPADs.

I asked for your opinion. Not the procedure involved. 

If It was down to you, you'd have dismissed Cummings last week. 

Would you dismiss Kinnock for making the same journey in miles, with a very weak excuse for doing so, baring in mind both did not break social distancing rules and the police haven't charged either of them? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 minute ago, Van Gritters said:

So will you change your mind?

I change it regularly. 

On this, nobody has convinced me that I am wrong in what I believe. And when I am told by Boris Johnson that it's 'time to move on', it just convinces me that he has no intention of convincing me.

[rynny]

48 minutes ago, Norman said:

You ask 2 questions. But you don't know the answers. 

Weird. You'd have thought the media and some of their own party would have gone in on them by now. 

I wouldn't have asked the questions if I knew the answers, do you know the answers? Maybe @BriggRam could shed some light?

There isn't as much media on it, agreed. Is it because they are lower profile than Cummings? In a similar way that Walker's transgression was more reported than Grealish's or any lower league player? 

47 minutes ago, BriggRam said:

totally agree he's screwed up and his excuses aren't good......but it is fair to say the clowns i have highlighted have not had the same scrutiny, despite being at larger gatherings of people where someone may have had the virus

As I have said above a higher profile will bring more media. Only 2 were at larger gatherings, one of them did the same as Cummings minus the "believing they were infected" part (which is a big deal) and the other effectively had lunch outside, they didn't travel across the country whilst believing someone in the car was infected. 

As I said they were all in the wrong but not comparable to Cummings, and shouldn't change what anyone thinks or reports of him. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

I asked for your opinion. Not the procedure involved. 

If It was down to you, you'd have dismissed Cummings last week. 

Would you dismiss Kinnock for making the same journey in miles, with a very weak excuse for doing so, baring in mind both did not break social distancing rules and the police haven't charged either of them? 

I can't dismiss an MP. A party leader can't dismiss an MP. Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No. I thought he was a dick at the time and I still do. I don't need people to be whiter than white but I would want them to lead by example. Driving for nonessential reasons is not leading by example.

I also wouldn't pick Kyle Walker for England, though that's easy to say when there are better options anyway.

I still don't see how other people's actions detract from Cummings' example.

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I can't dismiss an MP. A party leader can't dismiss an MP. Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No. I thought he was a dick at the time and I still do. I don't need people to be whiter than white but I would want them to lead by example. Driving for nonessential reasons is not leading by example.

I also wouldn't pick Kyle Walker for England, though that's easy to say when there are better options anyway.

I still don't see how other people's actions detract from Cummings' example.

I'm not asking if he would be on your shadow cabinet. Or if he is a dick. Or asking whether Kyle Walker should play for England. 

I'm not detracting from Cummings. I'm asking what I thought was a simple question. 

You are Starmer. Kinnock is your adviser. Do you sack Kinnock based on his actions. Yes or no? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

I'm not asking if he would be on your shadow cabinet. Or if he is a dick. Or asking whether Kyle Walker should play for England. 

I'm not detracting from Cummings. I'm asking what I thought was a simple question. 

You are Starmer. Kinnock is your advisor. Do you sack Kinnock based on his actions. Yes or no? 

I wrote this:

'Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No.'

[TuffLuff]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

I'm not asking if he would be on your shadow cabinet. Or if he is a dick. Or asking whether Kyle Walker should play for England. 

I'm not detracting from Cummings. I'm asking what I thought was a simple question. 

You are Starmer. Kinnock is your advisor. Do you sack Kinnock based on his actions. Yes or no? 

Alright Dom!

 

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I wrote this:

'Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No.'

Yeah, I realise what you wrote, but that doesn't answer the question.

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Alright Dom!

 

It's Dave, actually. Out of interest, would you have sacked Kinnock if he was an adviser to Starmer? 

[BriggRam]

20 minutes ago, rynny said:

I wouldn't have asked the questions if I knew the answers, do you know the answers? Maybe @BriggRam could shed some light?

i'm afraid i can't.......there was no media hounding which meant no public outrage which meant they were aloud to carry on with there lives as normal as possible without the hordes of reporters circling there every move like jackals

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just now, Norman said:

It's Dave, actually. Out of interest, would you have sacked Kinnock if he was an adviser to Starmer? 

But he’s not an adviser. He’s a member of the shadow cabinet. 
 

not really sure what you’re trying to do here. 
 

you can’t make it like-for-like by changing  the job of one of the people. Can we also imagine that one of them is a butcher or baker or candlestick maker?

[Chester40]

Every time I see DC making his statement, I am reminded of Blackadder when the drunken reveller bursts in whilst he is dining with the Puritans and proclaims 'great booze up'.... 

Miriam Margoyles wildly eyes him and says 'Explain yourself...' 

.. And its still less laughable than DC's explanation. 

 

[B4ev6is]

7 minutes ago, BriggRam said:

i'm afraid i can't.......there was no media hounding which meant no public outrage which meant they were aloud to carry on with there lives as normal as possible without the hordes of reporters circling there every move like jackals

They all been out and about places while rest had freedoms ripped away while they enjoy themselfs while rest been stuck inside why populations do what ever they like gong out enjoying themselfs.

[Norman]

6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

But he’s not an adviser. He’s a member of the shadow cabinet. 
 

not really sure what you’re trying to do here. 
 

you can’t make it like-for-like by changing  the job of one of the people. Can we also imagine that one of them is a butcher or baker or candlestick maker?

You do know what I'm doing, hence the evasive tactics. 

Imagine whatever job you like. 

The question is the same. Would you sack Kinnock. 

He's an adviser. Do you sack him? 

He's a butcher. Do you sack him? 

He's an MP? You can't sack him, but if you could, would you? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

You do know what I'm doing, hence the evasive tactics. 

Imagine whatever job you like. 

The question is the same. Would you sack Kinnock. 

He's an adviser. Do you sack him? 

He's a butcher. Do you sack him? 

He's an MP? You can't sack him, but if you could, would you? 

But I've already answered that based on actual reality.

I'm not being evasive. I repeat: Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No. (You even asked 'Yes or no' after I had said this. Hence my not being sure what you are trying to do) That's reality. Would I have him piloting the space shuttle after his writing the the pilot manual and wilfully going against it? No. Would I have him in the kitchen after his being caught whacking off in the mayonaise? No. I'm not sure how many imaginary scenarios you want to go through. I would expect high standards and if people are being dick about it, I wouldn't have them in my team.

[May Contain Nuts]

Did anyone actually expect a police investigation to uncover anything, or think that it was even a serious, detailed investigation in the first place? The only way they'd have realistically do anything is if they'd physically caught him in an illegal act or had irrefutable video proof.

Essentially they've just said there's a lack of evidence, nobody has confessed to anything / broke rank under casual questioning and there's no point us looking into it any further. Hardly a surprise.

Using the lack of action as a point scoring device seems a bit odd to me tbh.

[Norman]

14 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

But I've already answered that based on actual reality.

I'm not being evasive. I repeat: Would I have him in my Shadow Cabinet? No. (You even asked 'Yes or no' after I had said this. Hence my not being sure what you are trying to do) That's reality. Would I have him piloting the space shuttle after his writing the the pilot manual and wilfully going against it? No. Would I have him in the kitchen after his being caught whacking off in the mayonaise? No. I'm not sure how many imaginary scenarios you want to go through. I would expect high standards and if people are being dick about it, I wouldn't have them in my team.

Having someone in a shadow cabinet doesn't answer the question. 

I would hold MPs to higher standard than advisers. 

Who I hold to a higher standard than candlestick makers, butchers and people who masturbate in kitchens.

You made my point for me by bringing up those job roles. 

It's not really that hard a leap to make. You wouldn't want Walker playing for England, so you wouldn't want him at Derby. Never going to happen. 

You disagree with Cummings' actions, so you must surely disagree as strongly with Kinnock's?

Just wondering where your mock outrage for him is?