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Pastinaak

v Bristol City (H) Match Thread

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Before this season started many people were preaching that, with a disrupted pre-season, new management team, quite a few new players and the loss of three of our best players (or more if you were fans of Bryson 😍 (me) & Bradley), it was quite likely we were going to have a slow start and that a degree of patience was required.

Last night wasn’t pretty, particularly the first half.  However, it’s early days and plenty of time for Cocu & Co to find the right combination and system to get us where we need to be.  

It is time for some stability and I want PC to be given the time to build a team.  That might mean some duff performances along the way.  There are dozens of examples where both managers and players got off to slightly rocky starts and became stars and legends.  

What upsets me a bit after defeats is the baby out with the bath water attitude a few have, where individuals are castigated as the worst players they have ever seen etc.  Not to say that some won’t turn out to be poor signings, but that’s football.  All managers make poor signings, all managers make tactical errors, all players occasionally mess up.  No need to get too flustered about it.

I’m not drawing too many conclusions from last night’s game.  See how PC changes things for Saturday first.  Then, longer term, see how he uses the windows to mould his team.  Positive thoughts 😬

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I feel as if we massively improved once going 3 at the back, I bet Cocu will be emphasizing that a lot in training and I wouldn't be surprised, with the quality we have, to see us play that position more, especially when Bogle and Marriott are 100% fit and well.

I can see our strongest(?) team line up like this

Roos/Hamer

Keogh    Bielik    Clarke

Bogle    Evans    Knight/Hudds    Lowe

Lawrence(or Rooney)

Waghorn    Marriott

That team will win games. Gives Bogle more of a chance to get out up wide in which I think he excels at, Max Lowe has been excellent recently aswell when played out of position, and on the left hand side he brings a lot to the table. What both fullbacks maybe lack in defending its made up for by the strong defensive positions. 

Bielik has the ability to, when necessary, move forward a little bit into the holding midfield role, and then Bogle and Lowe can drop back.

The Waghorn Marriott partnership seems nothing short of strong and I'd love to see more of it.

Evans and Huddlestone in that central midfield is classy and the availability of Dowell/Knight also allows for us to switch up.

I put Lawrence in there over potentially Duane Holmes as I'm still a firm believer that Tom can excel in that number 10 role, and can definitely put in a shift there. Don't forget both Dowell and Holmes are also able to play there, never mind ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONEY in Jan.

It's not all doom and gloom, we were beaten by the better team on the night, On to West Brom on saturday, who are strengthened so much from last year. This game in my opinion will be THE match to show us where we truly are.

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28 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

One thing that needs pointing out, it's absolutely ridiculous how quick a large proportion of fans have gone into crisis mode because we've lost. It's always been a virus of our fanbase as far back as I can remember. It's a long season - a bit of perspective could do the world of good. 

It isnt the loss thats the problem...its the manner of the loss thats the concern. They cut us open down the middle from the first minute and if we are going to field a defensive set up at home the one thing we need to be is defensively strong. We were far from it last night.

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8 minutes ago, nottingram said:

So stubborn he has changed formation completely at half time in both of our last two games? 

Stubborn in terms of ideology and choosing of particular players, one of the reasons for the player revolt at fenerbache

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1 minute ago, Sexydadbod said:

Stubborn in terms of ideology and choosing of particular players, one of the reasons for the player revolt at fenerbache

Ever thought about the fact he might be giving players a chance. I.E. Josefzoon, to see what they can do in a league game?

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Just now, superzak said:

It isnt the loss thats the problem...its the manner of the loss thats the concern. They cut us open down the middle from the first minute and if we are going to field a defensive set up at home the one thing we need to be is defensively strong. We were far from it last night.

Yeah, it wasn't a good game, but we've played worse and won that's for sure. I just don't think there is any need for such negativity. It just wasn't our day. We still had the majority of possession, shots, corners...etc. It's still a loss, but no time to feel sorry for ourselves with WBA, Forest, Brentford, Cardiff & Leeds coming up. 

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Posted (edited)

If they defend like that on saturday wba will get 5 lol as you say it wasnt a good game. Also the majority of the shots and corners statistic is from the second half when Bristol sat back on there 2-0 lead that we had given them.

Edited by superzak

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As shown last night, our failure to bring in creative players who can impact a match will be our undoing this season. Feel sorry for Cocu, who imo was let down in the transfer window by the recruitment team in that area.

Maybe we put all our eggs in one basket once it became apparent WR was available, maybe they didn’t want to come or it was the result of previous windows and FFP, but whatever the reason he will do exceptionally well to keep us in touch of the top 6 come Jan.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Bristol City said:

Thought you were toothless up front, and we were just as poor but would've struggled to not score after you basically gifted us 2 goals. 9 times out of 10 Wiemann takes that shot first time and misses, sods law that he puts it away against you. Surprised we sat so deep second half & let you play around the box but I guess it worked? Bad day at the office for both teams, but with a lot of new players each I can understand why. Think the reverse fixture will be like 2 different teams. Good luck for the rest of the season & please do the scummy baadiff/leeds next month.

Cracking report, On a positive for us I’d say you were toothless because our new defence:  players, balance and set up is very good. On a plus for you I think your energy and hunger off the ball won you the game almost as much as the mistakes. There was real drive and intent in the middle of the park. 

Edited by jono

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6 minutes ago, Squid said:

I feel as if we massively improved once going 3 at the back, I bet Cocu will be emphasizing that a lot in training and I wouldn't be surprised, with the quality we have, to see us play that position more, especially when Bogle and Marriott are 100% fit and well.

I can see our strongest(?) team line up like this

Roos/Hamer

Keogh    Bielik    Clarke

Bogle    Evans    Knight/Hudds    Lowe

Lawrence(or Rooney)

Waghorn    Marriott

That team will win games. Gives Bogle more of a chance to get out up wide in which I think he excels at, Max Lowe has been excellent recently aswell when played out of position, and on the left hand side he brings a lot to the table. What both fullbacks maybe lack in defending its made up for by the strong defensive positions. 

Bielik has the ability to, when necessary, move forward a little bit into the holding midfield role, and then Bogle and Lowe can drop back.

The Waghorn Marriott partnership seems nothing short of strong and I'd love to see more of it.

Evans and Huddlestone in that central midfield is classy and the availability of Dowell/Knight also allows for us to switch up.

I put Lawrence in there over potentially Duane Holmes as I'm still a firm believer that Tom can excel in that number 10 role, and can definitely put in a shift there. Don't forget both Dowell and Holmes are also able to play there, never mind ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONEY in Jan.

It's not all doom and gloom, we were beaten by the better team on the night, On to West Brom on saturday, who are strengthened so much from last year. This game in my opinion will be THE match to show us where we truly are.

Genuine question, and not one I pretend to know the answer to - how much of us being better with three at the back was down to Bristol sitting back on a two-goal lead? I thought Bristol were unspectatular, but at the same time extremely well organised and managed the game well.

Three at the back will be fun to watch though!

 

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2 minutes ago, Squid said:

Ever thought about the fact he might be giving players a chance. I.E. Josefzoon, to see what they can do in a league game?

I’m simply reiterating what fans of his previous clubs say to give an insight into what things will be like. A lot of fans are expecting brilliant attacking football but I don’t believe it will be. When we are at our peak, I think we will be a heavy rigid, well structured side who will be hard to beat, who will grind out well fought wins rather than blow teams away. Put another way, teams won’t want to face us.

I think we all know what Jozefzoon is like as a player and Cocu does as well, they didn’t have a good relationship at PSV , doesn’t show the rest of our wingers in good light if he’s relying on a player who didn’t have a good relationship with.

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2 minutes ago, Taribo said:

Genuine question, and not one I pretend to know the answer to - how much of us being better with three at the back was down to Bristol sitting back on a two-goal lead? I thought Bristol were unspectatular, but at the same time extremely well organised and managed the game well.

Three at the back will be fun to watch though!

 

All honesty matey, I'm not sure.. but nonetheless we looked more of a threat and we looked more capable of actually doing something!

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2 minutes ago, Sexydadbod said:

I’m simply reiterating what fans of his previous clubs say to give an insight into what things will be like. A lot of fans are expecting brilliant attacking football but I don’t believe it will be. When we are at our peak, I think we will be a heavy rigid, well structured side who will be hard to beat, who will grind out well fought wins rather than blow teams away. Put another way, teams won’t want to face us.

I think we all know what Jozefzoon is like as a player and Cocu does as well, they didn’t have a good relationship at PSV , doesn’t show the rest of our wingers in good light if he’s relying on a player who didn’t have a good relationship with.

Yeah I understand you pal. We know that Josefzoon is pants. But if Cocu wants to give him a couple more games to give him a chance then oh well.. 

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12 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

We still had the majority of possession, shots, corners...etc. It's still a loss, but no time to feel sorry for ourselves with WBA, Forest, Brentford, Cardiff & Leeds coming up. 

Because Bristol sat in, let us have the ball and didn't need to play. They surrendered the flanks second half knowing our delivery into the box was atrocious, and should we actually manage it, their centre halves would win it every single time because we have no threat from those type of deliveries. We knocked it round lethargically not doing much with the possession and had 1 shot on target all second half. Don't kid yourself with stats.

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Football at this level is a confidence driven game.  All the players we see play the game at a level most if not all of us could only dream of but once the confidence goes it all turns to crapolla.  Malone will have to be strong to come back from this and we are unlikely to see him play at least at home again in the near future.  Potentially he is close to being a player that will go at the end of the contract for zero.  Sad really that the fans can't be supporters because this situation does nobody any good.  We can all have our opinions as to whether a player is any good or not but Id rather we played our part in getting the best out of the team rather than condemn somebody to the stiffs for the term of his contract.

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45 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I agree but its finding five decent gungs and hoers thats the problem. 

 

Knight, Mitchell-Lawson, Sibley, Shinnie, Holmes. Only one of those is injured. We need some energy in midfield. 

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3 minutes ago, Squid said:

Yeah I understand you pal. We know that Josefzoon is pants. But if Cocu wants to give him a couple more games to give him a chance then oh well.. 

Not as if there are alternatives. Just Bennett.

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Not great watch was it?  Just shocked as to how the first half went and tbh shocked by the sparsity of the crowd

Much as though I admire Hudz I agree with some comments on here that he flatters to deceive.  When he starts he can dictate the pace of the game in a negative manner.  That looked like a friendly in the first half.  He is not the answer and I had hoped that he was destined for Italy this summer.  He may have a role as a sub but not as a starter.

Waggy is also not the answer.  This season has not started well and he is definitely a confidence player.  He has a number of chances that he should have buried and his ball control can leave a lot to be desired.  I think Cocu must now be having serious doubts as to his value as a starter

We have lost the core of our side and I know many have suggested that we need to lower our standards this season consequently.   Apart from the obvious departure we also lost BJ who for all his faults was an important factor in our end of season improved performances

If we learnt anything last night it would be to expect a mediocre first part of the season at best.  Not sure how many will put up with that before turning on the next target though

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Just now, Spanish said:

Football at this level is a confidence driven game.  All the players we see play the game at a level most if not all of us could only dream of but once the confidence goes it all turns to crapolla.  Malone will have to be strong to come back from this and we are unlikely to see him play at least at home again in the near future.  Potentially he is close to being a player that will go at the end of the contract for zero.  Sad really that the fans can't be supporters because this situation does nobody any good.  We can all have our opinions as to whether a player is any good or not but Id rather we played our part in getting the best out of the team rather than condemn somebody to the stiffs for the term of his contract.

This is very true. Funny how such players get their confidence back when they leave Derby and play elsewhere. Weimann for example! 

Pride Park - tough crowd.

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