v Bristol City (H) Match Thread

[ramboy63]

33 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

I liked Cocu's post match interviews and reaction. He is careful and considered and has a clinical approach I like. I suspect he sees all the things the fans do and much more. Lets give him time to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I'm still expecting a decent season.

Agreed i do think we will have an ok season whether that equates to a top 6 position not to sure. 

However when a manager as to change formations three times in one game makes my alarm bells go off as you then have a choice of two answers, one is the manager got the tactics completely wrong or as i suspect the squad of players we now have are mediocre at best.Time they say will tell which one is ultimately correct

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

Agreed i do think we will have an ok season whether that equates to a top 6 position not to sure. 

However when a manager as to change formations three times in one game makes my alarm bells go off as you then have a choice of two answers, one is the manager got the tactics completely wrong or as i suspect the squad of players we now have are mediocre at best.Time they say will tell which one is ultimately correct

The funny thing is if he'd kept the same formation for the whole match whilst we were 0-2 down he would be accused of having no plan B or being too inflexible to change. He has tried to make changes to impact the game and is getting pulled up for that as well. Managers can't win sometimes.

[Raich Carter]

6 minutes ago, TibshelfRam said:

My take aways from last night:

- Jozefzoon is unfairly scapegoated. His final ball wasn't always great but the overreaction amongst fans was too much. It was almost like they were waiting for him to fail. I actually felt he did okay after coming on and gave us some much needed width on the right.

 

Largely agree with what you've said in the rest of the post but can't agree with that. The bloke repeatedly failed to be able to get anything resembling a cross in the box. And passed back, poorly (i.e. not in such a way it could be banged-in from the deeper position), on so many occasions.

I'm not a moaning-minnie - quite the opposite - but that bloke does my head in. He clearly has some physical attributes in that he's quick'ish, etc but I just don't get his thinking at all. 

I try and find the positives with all the players (Lawro, Keogh, etc) but he just presses my buttons. Of course I don't want him to fail because that would impact on us as a club - I just want him to work harder on his game or get gone.

[dcfcfan1]

2 hours ago, Duracell said:

Sometimes I think fans forget what it’s like to simply lose a game over summer.

What’s with the binary reaction to everything? That was a million miles off the worst performance last season, which was brilliant season. So we can play worse than that several times in a season and still finish in the play-offs.

Such an overreaction. We weren’t bad last night. We weren’t really any good either. 42 left to play.

I wouldn’t let it bother me, but the mass mood swings at the club are starting to affect my enjoyment of the game. We lose one match and I see abuse from my fellow fans directed at players they’re meant to be supporting, I see fans declaring in August they’d like to drive a young loanee back to their parent club for the crime of not being Mason Mount, and I see some fans claiming they know more about Marriott’s fitness than Cocu and almost seem to be suggesting that if they were in charge and were allowed to play him we would have won last night.

It’s not fun sometimes. Not anymore.

Our midfield and wingers does make me want to gag.  I just want to roll on next summer where cocu can have a midfield revolution. This season will be a mid table season tbh 

[BondJovi]

9 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

Agreed i do think we will have an ok season whether that equates to a top 6 position not to sure. 

However when a manager as to change formations three times in one game makes my alarm bells go off as you then have a choice of two answers, one is the manager got the tactics completely wrong or as i suspect the squad of players we now have are mediocre at best.Time they say will tell which one is ultimately correct

I seem to recall at the start of last season Klopp frequently made a sub at half time. And he had plenty of time with that squad.

Just seems not enough people trust the manager when he doesn't do as they want him to. About time we had a manager who is proactive in changing things.

[Bubbles]

14 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

Agreed i do think we will have an ok season whether that equates to a top 6 position not to sure. 

However when a manager as to change formations three times in one game makes my alarm bells go off as you then have a choice of two answers, one is the manager got the tactics completely wrong or as i suspect the squad of players we now have are mediocre at best.Time they say will tell which one is ultimately correct

I personally see that as a positive, we have a Plan B, Plan C. We have the ability to change and adapt a lot more than we did last year.

[Anag Ram]

2 hours ago, Duracell said:

Sometimes I think fans forget what it’s like to simply lose a game over summer.

What’s with the binary reaction to everything? That was a million miles off the worst performance last season, which was brilliant season. So we can play worse than that several times in a season and still finish in the play-offs.

Such an overreaction. We weren’t bad last night. We weren’t really any good either. 42 left to play.

I wouldn’t let it bother me, but the mass mood swings at the club are starting to affect my enjoyment of the game. We lose one match and I see abuse from my fellow fans directed at players they’re meant to be supporting, I see fans declaring in August they’d like to drive a young loanee back to their parent club for the crime of not being Mason Mount, and I see some fans claiming they know more about Marriott’s fitness than Cocu and almost seem to be suggesting that if they were in charge and were allowed to play him we would have won last night.

It’s not fun sometimes. Not anymore.

Great post. It's going to be tough for the manager, the players and yes, the fans for a while as a new manager, new players and new tactics take shape. 

Yes it was disappointing to see players strolling through that first half without any desire to get on the ball. But that happened last year too, and the year before. 

I want to see us win every week but when that doesn't happen I won't abandon Derby County. 

A lot of fans seem to blame Derby for their unhappiness and when they are booing Derby they are booing life. 

[Jourdan]

30 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

He needs time. But the pressure you speak about will only build if we dont win Saturday. I record at home would be played 3 and if we dont win drew 2 lost 1, Thats hardly going to keep the "quick to boo" fans happy. Follow that up by a beating at Forest (in the cup i know but all the same) then the wind could well and truly be knocked out of our sails. We have tough games to come before the break so we need to switch on as a team now and start playing our football. Cocu has to choose a formation and stick with it hes changed formation at half time in 3 of the 4 games so far which doesn't look good. with Bogle back and Marriott fully fit we should be better, plus players still need to adapt and settle in. The season isn't won or lost in August, if we can be in and around it come January we will see Rooney come in which is a massive positive and Cocu can hopefully bring in the players we need to push on in the second half of the season.

Without a win on Saturday, it would be 1 or possibly 2 points from 9. And you’re right, fans will boo and ’It’s bloody rubbish, Cocu. Bloody rubbish’ will rain down from the stands.

Perspective might be needed. We haven’t had a particularly easy start at home and the longer you go without a home win, the harder the next home game becomes. Had we beaten Swansea, the home games to follow probably would have a different, more relaxed feel to them.

As it is, there will probably be pressure on Cocu and the boys on Saturday. I am not hopeful. I think WBA are playing us at a good time.

The thing is, West Brom and Bristol City were in the mix for promotion last year and will be up there again this year, so maybe the boo boys need to take that into account.

If we lose and the players are booed off on Saturday, then there should have been riot scenes when we lost to Millwall and Burton in seasons past.

[IlsonDerby]

I’m confident that a side looking a bit like this: 

                Hamer 

Bogle Keogh Clarke Lowe 

                 Bielek 

          Holmes Dowell 

Waghorn Marriott Lawrence 

Bench: Roos Davies Buchanan Evans Knight Bennett Mitchell-Lawson 

 

will win more than it loses, playing some good stuff along the way. 

433 because it’s clearly our plan A currently. 

 

Holmes is excellent and adding bite to the midfield and winning the ball back. Numerous occasions last season where a crunching tackle from him got the crowd pumped and going. 

[SSD]

The defence are solely to blame for last night's performance and result. Granted, misplaced passes were disrupting the flow of the play moving forward, but the defending for both goals was atrocious, absolutely embarrassing. People make mistakes, I make mistakes, Malone's not going to forget his mistake in a hurry. The bloke unfortunately doesn't learn. He's trying to be too clever yet again, not recovering to stop the cross either, half arsed attempt of a block, that was Sunday league bad. Shocking, right before half time. He won't be playing for awhile from the sounds of the manager. 

Positives, Marriott looked lively even if he's only 75% fit. The 352 formation was effective and with more luck, we'd have taken a point quite easily. Lowe and Bogle should be our wing backs if we're going to play this system. Bielik had a decent game too, composure to receive the ball and get himself out of trouble was excellent. 

It's always a mountain trying to come back from 2 down at half time. Similar defensive rooster-ups to when Frank was the manager. Just do the basics of defending first, I don't care if it's the odd aimless hoof every now and then. I'd rather we lumped it to the wingers than messing around pretending to be world class defenders on the ball. Lawrence should have scored with his first half chance, however conceding first will always be a nightmare, especially at home. Bristol had 5 defenders for all the 2nd half, were happy to camp in our box to defend crosses. If we're not going to stay in the game and be smarter at the back, we will sadly struggle.

Rooney coming in won't change the rubbish decision making by our defenders. Cocu was fuming by the sounds of his interview, fingers crossed he'll whip the back 4/5 into shape. We have a lot of potential going forward and creating chances, however we have to stay in the game for far longer.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

The second goal was purely a mistake and got the punishment it deserved. For the first although Weimann put it away well Bristol were extremely lucky (or us unlucky) with all the rebounds and ricochets. 

[SaintRam]

9 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

The second goal was purely a mistake and got the punishment it deserved. For the first although Weimann put it away well Bristol were extremely lucky (or us unlucky) with all the rebounds and ricochets. 

I'd also say a strong factor in the first goal was that, if you note every Derby player's position as the ball is heading to the Bristol player on the edge of the box, you'll notice the only one who moved between then and the goal being scored is Roos (although can forgive Clarke as he was going back and forth on the line).

That's pretty bad.

At the very least a second player could have gotten themselves on the line during that time, and actual pressure could have been put on Weimann. 

[Sparkle]

16 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Please not Dowell holding midfielder, we would be truly ducked with his lack of defensive ability. I'm hoping Knight plays ahead of him if we use a 433 or Evan if we go with your set up.

I was not suggesting useing a defensive midfielder with 3 centre backs 

[Pearl Ram]

18 hours ago, Dean_Saunders said:

“What the Dickens”

That has cheered me up. Are you the artful dodger?

Haha, I’m actually fluent in profanity but didn’t want to put ‘what the ****. ?

[Steve How Hard?]

On 18/08/2019 at 10:17, Steve How Hard? said:

The most concerning thing about this fixture is the same person has started the match thread. @Pastinaak if we lose this one then the blame lies firmly at your door. ?

@Pastinaak

 

[KCG]

I think the problem is that Cocu hasn't yet worked out his best team/formation, which is maybe not surprising given how long he has been here. Frank had all of last season and never resolved the conundrum, so let's hope Cocu is better at the job.

I didn't think Dowell was too bad in the 2nd half, and benefited from us moving to what looks our best formation with our current personnel. Bielek seemed to have much more time and composure playing from the back; he seemed to not have his bearings in the first half.

Lawrence remains an enigma and surely needs to play behind the front 2 of Marriott and Waghorn (I can see Martin replacing Waghorn as we need someone who can hold the ball and make telling passes)?

Malone seems to think he is better than he is and can't defend.

Zoon is another enigma; I'm sure a Brian Clough would work miracles with him, but at the moment I don't see what he brings to the party! He had ample opportunities to take his opponent on and get in a decent cross, but failed abysmally. Let's hope Bogle is fit soon!

Football is a simple game, we need to attack with pace and accuracy, and press when we do not have the ball. At the moment we are struggling to do the simple things.

 

 

[ramboy63]

3 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The funny thing is if he'd kept the same formation for the whole match whilst we were 0-2 down he would be accused of having no plan B or being too inflexible to change. He has tried to make changes to impact the game and is getting pulled up for that as well. Managers can't win sometimes.

Im with you for sure it is nice to see Plan B and perhaps even Plan C but your missing the point the alterations were made at 2 nil down and game virtually gone .After 20 minutes you could see there was a issue and we even made Palmer and Weimann look like world beaters when they could get no were near our starting eleven.

The other thing that confused me was the first sub at half time,yes Malone was having a stinker and Cocu decided to go three at the back again agree with that,but who did he bring on the most out of form liability with have in the squad

[ram1964]

3 hours ago, Raich Van Carter said:

Largely agree with what you've said in the rest of the post but can't agree with that. The bloke repeatedly failed to be able to get anything resembling a cross in the box. And passed back, poorly (i.e. not in such a way it could be banged-in from the deeper position), on so many occasions.

I'm not a moaning-minnie - quite the opposite - but that bloke does my head in. He clearly has some physical attributes in that he's quick'ish, etc but I just don't get his thinking at all. 

I try and find the positives with all the players (Lawro, Keogh, etc) but he just presses my buttons. Of course I don't want him to fail because that would impact on us as a club - I just want him to work harder on his game or get gone.

Think a lot of the players waited for the ball to come to their feet,rather than running on to it ,hence a lot of interceptions last night,certainly looked a better team with Marriott on the pitch and playing with more tempo. Zoon a bit like Lawrence not consistent enough ,erratic passing and crossing of the ball , and loses pocession to much .

 

[May Contain Nuts]

5 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

 

I do enjoy the Brunswick.  Last time I was there post match on a Saturday some young fellas walked in and confidently ordered, "five sambuccas mate" only to be told "we don't serve that **** here this ain't a Weatherspoons".

Perfect. 

It's just a shame that the vast majority of beer sold in there is dull as ditchwater, bland, wishy washy crap from breweries of no reknown really.

[DavesaRam]

I have to admit that I struggled with the line up last night. Why on earth were we playing two defensive midfielders in a home game against a team that hadn't won so far this season? Surely we should be going on the front foot and getting at Bristol so that any confidence problems will be exposed? Or we could be cautious and see what happens. However, when you factor in that Cocu has played a the highest levels, and is an in-demand manager, and I drive a lorry for a living, perhaps I should let him deal with team selection! 

We started OK, and it became clear that all Bristol had come to do was press us and play on the break, relying on the pace of their forwards. Early doors our movement off the ball was really good and we were able to pass the ball around quickly. But has against Stoke, their goal got into our heads. Instead of sitting back going long-ball, this time we stooped the off-the ball movement, so our passing suffered. That first goal was bad defending, but Bristol had a huge slice of luck with the ball pinging around like it was in a bagatelle. But I could live with it because I was seeing good things at the time. But then the poor passing began to manifest itself, and the second goal was a howler, resulting from Bristol's game plan off pressing us - every time we got the ball, a Bristol player was despatched at speed at him, giving him little time to play the ball on. This was what led to the second goal, along with our penchant for playing the ball out from the back. We have been better this season so far at knowing when to play it out and when to go safe with the big boot. But not tonight. A heavy backpass to Roos was dealt with by trying to play the ball out when he should have size 9'd upfield. It came to Malone, who could have size 9'd it himself, but tried to be too clever. The Brizzle player knew what he was likely to do, and had already anticipated the move, so game over.

So two dreadful errors spoiled the first half, but there were encouraging signs as well. Beilik started by trying too hard and got caught out a couple of times, but soon got to grips with himself and played really well. He has the ability to play his role in a really fluid way - for example in the second half, playing at centre back he was involved in a number of attacking moves, ending up in or near the Bristol penalty area. Lowe went out on loan as a boy, and has come back as a man. He gave a very mature display, especially as he was out of position again, for the first half. I noticed Keogh improved a lot last season, but this season he has gone up another level, maybe even two. So instead of intercepting the ball and heading it or playing it clear, he now is playing to a team-mate with great accuracy when it is right to do it. It means that we can turn defence into attack much more quickly. Unfortunately I am beginning to suspect that Dowell as actually Agent Dowell, sent to us via Everton to nullify any chance we have of success. He got into great positions and got a lot of the ball, and kept on wasting it time after time. Virtually every attack which went through him broke down, either with a poor pass, or because his speed of thought isn't there so momentum is snuffed out, or because he can't shoot, which for a No 10 is very poor. He should be very worried that Knight is doing so well.

Going 3 at the back could be seen as tactical, pushing us further forwards and onto the opposition, but given Cocu's interview at the end, it was also to get Malone out of the way. Good. And although Bristol were sitting back, we were much more positive after the change, and did create more opportunities - as well as the direct attempts at goal, there were a number of shots which were blocked.

I am not phased by the loss - as I have said before, we were completely hamstrung by the Chelsea shenanigans. We had no chance to replace Mount and Wilson, because by the time that Lampard had condescended to announce his departure, there were no decent replacements available, and we are making do with players who aren't wanted by their own team. I almost wonder if Mount and Wilson were sent as part of a long-term plan to put give Frank a significant leg-up in his quest to manage Chelsea, and that Derby were being screwed by the Blues right back when it first became clear that he was coming to Derby.

So with a devastated team and a manager who only arrived after what remained of the squad had already set off on their pre-season tour. We are effectively trying to play with our boots tied together. The meltdown  by some is because we have an expectation that we will be promotion contenders regardless of what happened pre-season. In reality if we get to mid-table we should be satisfied, so long as the squad, and the management, are doing their utmost with whta the have available.

As many have said, there is hope because of who is still to come in, particularly Holmes in midfield, and Bogle at right back, and hopefully Beilik as the sole defensive midfielder.

The fans were pretty good last night. Given that we were at least a gaol down from quite early on, we made lots of noise, at least in the south Stand. Well done yo fans!

Oh, and Mafiabob - can you justify that refereeing performance?