The Politics Thread 2019

[Anag Ram]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Dress it up how you like, your income puts you in a position where a small tax increase leaves you less affected than the rest of the country. If we're all in it together, you'll have to start contributing a little more to fix the nation's problems. Because you are unaffected by those problems. You aren't homeless, you don't need to use a food bank, you can afford to buy your home, you can feed your family and aren't living life on the bread line. But I'm confident that some people who you rely on to keep you in the position you are in will have experienced one or more of those issues. 

Be thankful for your ability to help others for a small cost. I wish I was unfortunate enough to be in your position. 

You’re right of course but a lot of the people who are ambitious and create jobs for others decide to leave the country or invest elsewhere if the tax burden becomes too great in their eyes.

It’s the old conundrum of trying to make sure those who really need help get it without unwittingly giving money to those with no desire to contribute (where they are able to).

 

 

[GboroRam]

14 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

You’re right of course but a lot of the people who are ambitious and create jobs for others decide to leave the country or invest elsewhere if the tax burden becomes too great in their eyes.

It’s the old conundrum of trying to make sure those who really need help get it without unwittingly giving money to those with no desire to contribute (where they are able to).

 

 

As I tried to say, there's plenty of less strict tax regimes that UK top earners could move to. I don't think people will truly be pushed to leave the country for the sake of a few extra tax quid. They'd have left long ago. There's lots of good reasons to live in this country, but those good reasons need to be paid for - like the NHS. 

[Comrade 86]

Just out of interest, the high-earners on here talking about brain-drain and skills shortages as a result of higher taxation, what locations would you disappear off to were you asked to pay a higher rate of taxes? 

[Anag Ram]

6 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Just out of interest, the high-earners on here talking about brain-drain and skills shortages as a result of higher taxation, what locations would you disappear off to were you asked to pay a higher rate of taxes? 

Isle of Man and Jersey (not me!)

 

[AdamRam]

47 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Dress it up how you like, your income puts you in a position where a small tax increase leaves you less affected than the rest of the country. If we're all in it together, you'll have to start contributing a little more to fix the nation's problems. Because you are unaffected by those problems. You aren't homeless, you don't need to use a food bank, you can afford to buy your home, you can feed your family and aren't living life on the bread line. But I'm confident that some people who you rely on to keep you in the position you are in will have experienced one or more of those issues. 

Be thankful for your ability to help others for a small cost. I wish I was unfortunate enough to be in your position. 

Still avoided the point though of why you shouldn’t contribute, as I said I’m happy if the rules are the same for others. By nature my £10 will only be half of that for the next band, Why should I pay for you to get free broadband, for example, just because I can ?

[Angry Ram]

17 hours ago, Highgate said:

What science says differently to any of the 3 points I presented as facts?  

Can you explain to how you think it's relevant that the planet's climate is naturally variable?  The point is we are changing it now, and we are changing it in a manner that is going to be catastrophic for our brand new (in geological time scales) and frequently coast hugging civilization.

I don't know why you are asking about the industrial revolution however hey say about 80% of carbon dioxide (the most significant GHG) released into the atmosphere will have broken down within about 200 years.

I'm surprised that you have taken to a discussion about climate change without being aware of the difference between Average Global Temperature and Effective Global Temperature.  The very factors that prove and quantify the effectiveness of GHG's at heating up the planet.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance

I recommend that you real all of that webpage but the information you requested is contained in this sentence;

'The natural greenhouse effect raises the Earth’s surface temperature to about 15 degrees Celsius on average—more than 30 degrees warmer than it would be if it didn’t have an atmosphere.'

The gases in the atmosphere causing this effect are the 'greenhouse gases' naturally.

If you are still unconvinced that greenhouse gases in an atmosphere cause a planet to warm up, just read a few simple facts about the planet Venus, where greenhouse gases have raised the temperature of the planet by more than 500 C. 

Well Greta that was a read and a half. Not my sphere of expertise for sure and I am not sure what a lay man would make of that. 
At least I now know for sure the equator is hotter than the poles. Phew, I thought that was the other way around. 
 

I will now ha e a look at @Big Bad Bob link and see what this fella says. 
 

In the meantime I will try and not warm anything up. 
 

 

[Parsnip]

11 hours ago, maxjam said:

You can't make this crap up ?

[maxjam]

26 minutes ago, Pastinaak said:

So a terrorist who was supposed to be serving a 15 year fixed sentence is let out after 6 years and one of the heroes is a murderer jailed for 'life' back in 2004.  I think someone somewhere needs to look at what fixed term or life sentences actually mean.

Also, I'm not gonna be at all paranoid next time I go out, in the space of a few yards you've got terrorists and early release murderers walking around freely.  Gonna take a narwhal tusk to Derby with me later and buy every seat in a 10m radius around me to keep people away!

 

[AdamRam]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

I honestly don't know. I am with you Zero Tolerance, but what that means i don't know. I would say it means 100% (or as close as can be) certainty that the convicted has been fully rehabilitated, just not sure how you do this, but what it should also mean is that even if they are considered rehabilitated they should still serve their time and punishment.

 

How do you know they are fully rehabilitated, I get you could ask that for convicted criminal. For me though if you commit a terrorist crime in this country you could never be certain that they won’t reoffended and it’s impossible to track and stop these kinds of “lone wolf” attacks.

Therefore lock them up and throw away the key, keep the streets safer by having these people in a closed environment, planning to bomb pubs in the first instance should be a life sentence, just because they got caught before they committed it shouldn’t make a difference.

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

As I tried to say, there's plenty of less strict tax regimes that UK top earners could move to. I don't think people will truly be pushed to leave the country for the sake of a few extra tax quid. They'd have left long ago. There's lots of good reasons to live in this country, but those good reasons need to be paid for - like the NHS. 

Yeah and the doctors will be leaving due to the tax they have to pay.

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, GboroRam said:

As I tried to say, there's plenty of less strict tax regimes that UK top earners could move to. I don't think people will truly be pushed to leave the country for the sake of a few extra tax quid. They'd have left long ago. There's lots of good reasons to live in this country, but those good reasons need to be paid for - like the NHS. 

People tend to be too one dimensional when thinking about tax.

Looked at possible work in Bermuda a couple of years ago. No direct personal income tax at all. Small rate of NI.

But that ignores massive import cost that makes the cost of basic items 3 or 4 times that of here. And property rental was 8 or 9,000 US per month. 

Luxembourg.....indirect taxes are very high again making cost of living multiples of uk.

So really it's not about high or low taxes but how they're levied and how that bears down on different segments of society.

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

People tend to be too one dimensional when thinking about tax.

Looked at possible work in Bermuda a couple of years ago. No direct personal income tax at all. Small rate of NI.

But that ignores massive import cost that makes the cost of basic items 3 or 4 times that of here. And property rental was 8 or 9,000 US per month. 

Luxembourg.....indirect taxes are very high again making cost of living multiples of uk.

So really it's not about high or low taxes but how they're levied and how that bears down on different segments of society.

Exactly, not a simple like for like calculation.. I have had options of working in Europe, South Africa and USA.. Each had very attractive points. In ZA we could live like kings in Durban, very attractive package, gated community, servants even.. Nah, not for us.. The US has a lowish tax but then you factor in state taxes etc, it’s probably still better but who wants to live in New York? 

It’s not all about money, living standards, family, cost of living, safety, loads of factors.. I think the whole up sticks a move due to tax debate relates to big business and tax breaks,  cost of labour, government incentives.. These guys play the game and are clever.. They pay people like your good self to find these loop holes and exploit them. Individuals? Very rare but certainly does happen.

[Gritstone Ram]

The saying goes ‘there are two things certain in life: Death and taxes’. 

No one really likes paying them some people try to avoid paying them. If I could I would try and look at ways of paying less tax. I hate tax I think we should only work 4 days a week seeing at the taxman takes a days wages a week.

[AndyinLiverpool]

6 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

The saying goes ‘there are two things certain in life: Death and taxes’. 

No one really likes paying them some people try to avoid paying them. If I could I would try and look at ways of paying less tax. I hate tax I think we should only work 4 days a week seeing at the taxman takes a days wages a week.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilised society

Oliver Wendell Holmes

[GboroRam]

41 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

The saying goes ‘there are two things certain in life: Death and taxes’. 

No one really likes paying them some people try to avoid paying them. If I could I would try and look at ways of paying less tax. I hate tax I think we should only work 4 days a week seeing at the taxman takes a days wages a week.

Unless you want a health system like the USA, taxes are a necessary evil. 

[Sith Happens]

So it would seem that the point scoring has kicked in all ready on all sides, and some poor attempts on here. Shame on anyone doing so.

Just hopefully whoever wins the election see's what happened in London on Friday and decides on a way forward that does not allow people like that back onto our streets.

 

[AdamRam]

Good article around the “rich”. Some good facts especially around the take home pay compared to actual salary.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/2e8c3048-128d-11ea-a7e6-62bf4f9e548a

 

[Angry Ram]

22 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Good article around the “rich”. Some good facts especially around the take home pay compared to actual salary.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/2e8c3048-128d-11ea-a7e6-62bf4f9e548a

 

‘’it’s also worth noting that the top 1 per cent pay a lot of tax. They rake in about 12 per cent of all the UK’s taxable income but pay 27 per cent of income tax.

In addition, the 1 per cent are now earning less on average than they were in the Blair / Brown years before the financial crisis.’’.

 

I cut and pasted that from a website. Numbers are based on HMRC numbers.

I think they pay their way. It is also worth mentioning that the 1% could also make large charitable contributions.

 

 

 

[maxjam]

27 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

I think they pay their way. It is also worth mentioning that the 1% could also make large charitable contributions.

I can think of one top 1%er not to far away that has donated heavily to Derby Hospital whilst ploughing a small fortune into running a football club for its community...

[ramit]

An explosive Al Jazeera documentary investigating bribery paid by Iceland's largest fish company Samherji to Namibian officials and go between people in order to secure fishing quotas in Namibian waters.  It was Wikileaks who brought the information into the light after one of the main players from Samherji handed it over to them. 

Icelanders are furious and ashamed of the practices of Samherji, but as of yet there is no criminal investigation in Iceland happening, only an internal investigation within Samherji, in other words the criminals investigating themselves.  If Iceland's government does not act now, i for one will consider it's ministers complicit in serious corruption.

This is just one case of out hundreds, if not thousands.  This is how business is done in so many poorer countries and it must be stopped and the criminals brought to justice.