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The Politics Thread 2019

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rynny

rynny

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Highgate said:

Why would anyone fund/bribe a scientist to say what practically all their peers are already saying elsewhere?

Heard someone say once that Thatcher got scientists to say global warming so she could close the mines. 

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Bubbles

Bubbles

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Pastinaak said:

Spoke to the Mrs this morning about arranging a Christmas trip to London. She said let's wait till after the election so we avoid the inevitable terrorist attack...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-london-bridge-shooting-panic-20989832

How long before a candidate uses this to persuade people to vote?

 

Also it looks like a gang fight, someone has been stabbed 

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Van der MoodHoover

Van der MoodHoover

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, FindernRam said:

The younger generation haven't seen anything, have no experience of life and should not have a vote until at least 25. This reducing the age to 16 is pure nonsense. Would you let a teenage child tell you how to do your job? Which car to buy etc.

Kids make the poorest drivers, highest divorce rates, all because they have no experience to draw on. That's why they tend to vote Labour.

Probably true around 1918, as most of them had been shot.

Still, they wouldn't have known any better of course at voting in the politicians who marched us off to war all those years ago, as it was property owning blokes only. Like @Angry Ram the elder (and younger) ?

Common sense is certainly not the preserve of the older person.

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Parsnip

Parsnip

Posted
Posted

Oct 29th... election date set for 12th Dec.

Nov 4th... Tories reduce the London Terrorist threat level to 'substantial' (from 'severe' where had been since 2014)

Nov 29th... terrorist attack.

A few days of calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser should get boris over the line...

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Tamworthram

Tamworthram

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Highgate said:

There comes a point when science is not debatable anymore and it just becomes scientific fact.  Like with gravity or evolution.  Are you 'open minded' there or only listening to one side of the debate on those subjects?

Forget about climate model projections to begin with and just start with basic indisputable physics.

Indisputable fact 1:  Solar radiation in the form of visible light passes through the Earth's atmosphere and heats up the Earth's surface.  The Earth then re-radiates this heat back into space in the form of longer wavelength infrared radiation, some of which is trapped and absorbed by greenhouse gases, thereby warming up the atmosphere.  

Indisputable fact 2:  It is the presence of these greenhouse gases in the atmosphere that make this planet habitable in the first place, raising the average global temperature by about 30 C.

Indisputable fact 3:  Greenhouse gases concentrations in the atmosphere are increasing due to human activity.

When one of those facts do you think you can argue with, if you can't refute any of them then surely you have to accept man-made global warming as a fact. 

Incidentally Russia is one country that is not remotely worried about global warming.  They are heavily dependent on selling fossil fuels...they don't have many cities by the coast...and they quite like the prospect of Siberia warming up and potentially becoming fertile farmland.  They are wrong not to be worried but that seems to be the prevailing opinion there. 

 

No major cities by the coast? What about St. Petersburg their second largest city with a population of 5 million?

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Pastinaak said:

Oct 29th... election date set for 12th Dec.

Nov 4th... Tories reduce the London Terrorist threat level to 'substantial' (from 'severe' where had been since 2014)

Nov 29th... terrorist attack.

A few days of calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser should get boris over the line...

Was it a terrorist attack though or London gangs? 

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Pastinaak said:

Oct 29th... election date set for 12th Dec.

Nov 4th... Tories reduce the London Terrorist threat level to 'substantial' (from 'severe' where had been since 2014)

Nov 29th... terrorist attack.

A few days of calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser should get boris over the line...

You do know that its not the tories who set this?

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GboroRam

GboroRam

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Because even some remainers agree that you simply can't cancel the referendum vote;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-lib-dems-change-tune-on-brexit-amid-voter-hostility-2g58q96s9

I think it must be more than that. With 48% (probably more now, maybe even more than 50%) of the electorate wanting remain, even if you take 10% off to count for those who disagree with overturning the first vote (and not accounting for leavers who have changed their minds), it's a massive opportunity. The fact of the matter is that the middle of the road option isn't appealing to voters in the way the pundits seem to think they would.

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Norman

Norman

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think it must be more than that. With 48% (probably more now, maybe even more than 50%) of the electorate wanting remain, even if you take 10% off to count for those who disagree with overturning the first vote (and not accounting for leavers who have changed their minds), it's a massive opportunity. The fact of the matter is that the middle of the road option isn't appealing to voters in the way the pundits seem to think they would.

Please tell me you aren't going after the old 'all the old brexit voters are dead' line, are you? 

It's like when people claim Labour will have more and more supporters. It never happens. People get jobs, kids, houses, life experience etc. They then choose to vote differently. 

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Norman said:

Please tell me you aren't going after the old 'all the old brexit voters are dead' line, are you? 

It's like when people claim Labour will have more and more supporters. It never happens. People get jobs, kids, houses, life experience etc. They then choose to vote differently. 

Absolutely, I think many of us viewed the world differently when we were young with few responsibilities. 

Easy to say 'I am happy to give half my money away later in life' when you don't have any responsibilities. Once you have all those things you have mentioned then often those ideals change.

 

 

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sonofmidnight

sonofmidnight

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Absolutely, I think many of us viewed the world differently when we were young with few responsibilities. 

Easy to say 'I am happy to give half my money away later in life' when you don't have any responsibilities. Once you have all those things you have mentioned then often those ideals change.

 

 

Very true. I've got many friends who started out as very left wing in their teens and twenties and over the next 20 years they morphed into Tories.  Indeed one couple who derided my parents, who both voted Conservative, became Conservative councillors in their later years. Labour is a wonderful ideal but all too soon real life kicks in and bit by bit people's ideas can become eroded. I've always been a floating voter  and am still undecided and following this debate with interest.  

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Highgate

Highgate

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

But the point is, it is debatable.. Plenty of science days differently.. The planet warms and cools, always has, always will. 20 years ago we were heading fir an ice age, now we are all going to melt in 10 years. Just how good is this science you are so keen to bang on about and call it ‘indisputable fact’? 

How long ago was the industrial revolution? How long does it take to have an effect on the climate?

By the way.. Raising the average temperature by 30oC.. Would like to see something that backs that up..

What science says differently to any of the 3 points I presented as facts?  

Can you explain to how you think it's relevant that the planet's climate is naturally variable?  The point is we are changing it now, and we are changing it in a manner that is going to be catastrophic for our brand new (in geological time scales) and frequently coast hugging civilization.

I don't know why you are asking about the industrial revolution however hey say about 80% of carbon dioxide (the most significant GHG) released into the atmosphere will have broken down within about 200 years.

I'm surprised that you have taken to a discussion about climate change without being aware of the difference between Average Global Temperature and Effective Global Temperature.  The very factors that prove and quantify the effectiveness of GHG's at heating up the planet.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/EnergyBalance

I recommend that you real all of that webpage but the information you requested is contained in this sentence;

'The natural greenhouse effect raises the Earth’s surface temperature to about 15 degrees Celsius on average—more than 30 degrees warmer than it would be if it didn’t have an atmosphere.'

The gases in the atmosphere causing this effect are the 'greenhouse gases' naturally.

If you are still unconvinced that greenhouse gases in an atmosphere cause a planet to warm up, just read a few simple facts about the planet Venus, where greenhouse gases have raised the temperature of the planet by more than 500 C. 

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