The Politics Thread 2019

[Curtains]

Anybody realized yet that whatever is said in the thread will not effect the Election result. 
 

I mean this is a Derby County Football forum. 

[Angry Ram]

2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Do you believe climate change is an issue that needs tackling with urgency?

Here we go... Do you believe that?

[WhiteHorseRam]

2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Do you believe climate change is an issue that needs tackling with urgency?

What ever yang you are yinging, 40 degrees C in July in Burton ain't right,

 

[Highgate]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Climates change all the time. Plenty of ying to that yang. 

I'm going to assume that's not what you actually think about climate change as that would be a tragic misunderstanding of the crisis. But back to what you suggested earlier..

52 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Bit like climate change experts, if you dig deep enough they get their funding somewhere which could set an agenda.

Are you suggesting that climate scientists, or at least some climate scientists, are not being truthful in their opinions on the subject?  Why would anyone fund/bribe a scientist to say what practically all their peers are already saying elsewhere?

[WhiteHorseRam]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Anybody realized yet that whatever is said in the thread will not effect the Election result. 
 

I mean this is a Derby County Football forum. 

Yeah, and some people are going to be ****** disappointed. ?

[Curtains]

Just now, WhiteHorseRam said:

Yeah, and some people are going to be ****** disappointed. ?

Only one winner mate unless you want a Corbyn and Sturgeon Alliance. 
 
 

[GboroRam]

35 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Anybody realized yet that whatever is said in the thread will not effect the Election result. 
 

I mean this is a Derby County Football forum. 

You do realise that whatever is said in the football threads will not affect the actual football? 

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You do realise that whatever is said in the football threads will not effect the actual football? 

That’s it close the forum 

[Angry Ram]

4 minutes ago, Highgate said:

I'm going to assume that's not what you actually think about climate change as that would be a tragic misunderstanding of the crisis. But back to what you suggested earlier..

Are you suggesting that climate scientists, or at least some climate scientists, are not being truthful in their opinions on the subject?  Why would anyone fund/bribe a scientist to say what practically all their peers are already saying elsewhere?

So do you only listen to the one side of the debate? Are you suggesting that those climate scientists who challenge those findings are not being truthful in their opinions?

I assume we are going to go down the moral high ground here.. If yo7 want the truthful answer, no I am not convinced either way. I have seen some very convincing arguments on both sides. Climate change models are/could be wrong? I listen to one respected professor saying that only the Russians had a viable model. Had this discussion before and showed them the clip, they research the guy and decided he was funded by an oil company or something, so was talking Bollx. You can’t have it both ways and suggest that only your sides argument is water tight.

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

29 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Here we go... Do you believe that?

Yes I do. It was a simple question, fancy answering it? I won't press for an explanation either way.

 

EDIT: I just saw your answer above. As you were.

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

So do you only listen to the one side of the debate? Are you suggesting that those climate scientists who challenge those findings are not being truthful in their opinions?

I assume we are going to go down the moral high ground here.. If yo7 want the truthful answer, no I am not convinced either way. I have seen some very convincing arguments on both sides. Climate change models are/could be wrong? I listen to one respected professor saying that only the Russians had a viable model. Had this discussion before and showed them the clip, they research the guy and decided he was funded by an oil company or something, so was talking Bollx. You can’t have it both ways and suggest that only your sides argument is water tight.

 

Get where you're coming from though I have a rather firmer belief that the consensus is correct. Interestingly, the first entities to identify carbon emissions as being a key factor in global warming were not those banging the eco drum though. Quite the opposite in fact. When you see who commissioned the studies and what said studies revealed, it's rather harder to believe that the current overwhelming consensus is agenda led. Have a peep...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/sep/19/shell-and-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings

[WhiteHorseRam]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Only one winner mate unless you want a Corbyn and Sturgeon Alliance. 
 
 

I don't think there will be any long term 'winners' ….. a Corbyn/SNP alliance would wreck Labour for all time as Scotland would break away … I think Boris will win with a reasonable majority but the BREXIT malarky will still run and run. I also think post-BREXIT Bojo will have quite a moribund term.

The whole current crop of politicians is pooh stained by BREXIT, the party that replaces them fastest will win long term.

[Highgate]

59 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

So do you only listen to the one side of the debate? Are you suggesting that those climate scientists who challenge those findings are not being truthful in their opinions?

I assume we are going to go down the moral high ground here.. If yo7 want the truthful answer, no I am not convinced either way. I have seen some very convincing arguments on both sides. Climate change models are/could be wrong? I listen to one respected professor saying that only the Russians had a viable model. Had this discussion before and showed them the clip, they research the guy and decided he was funded by an oil company or something, so was talking Bollx. You can’t have it both ways and suggest that only your sides argument is water tight.

There comes a point when science is not debatable anymore and it just becomes scientific fact.  Like with gravity or evolution.  Are you 'open minded' there or only listening to one side of the debate on those subjects?

Forget about climate model projections to begin with and just start with basic indisputable physics.

Indisputable fact 1:  Solar radiation in the form of visible light passes through the Earth's atmosphere and heats up the Earth's surface.  The Earth then re-radiates this heat back into space in the form of longer wavelength infrared radiation, some of which is trapped and absorbed by greenhouse gases, thereby warming up the atmosphere.  

Indisputable fact 2:  It is the presence of these greenhouse gases in the atmosphere that make this planet habitable in the first place, raising the average global temperature by about 30 C.

Indisputable fact 3:  Greenhouse gases concentrations in the atmosphere are increasing due to human activity.

When one of those facts do you think you can argue with, if you can't refute any of them then surely you have to accept man-made global warming as a fact. 

Incidentally Russia is one country that is not remotely worried about global warming.  They are heavily dependent on selling fossil fuels...they don't have many cities by the coast...and they quite like the prospect of Siberia warming up and potentially becoming fertile farmland.  They are wrong not to be worried but that seems to be the prevailing opinion there. 

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

25 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

I don't think there will be any long term 'winners' ….. a Corbyn/SNP alliance would wreck Labour for all time as Scotland would break away … I think Boris will win with a reasonable majority but the BREXIT malarky will still run and run. I also think post-BREXIT Bojo will have quite a moribund term.

The whole current crop of politicians is pooh stained by BREXIT, the party that replaces them fastest will win long term.

When we are far enough removed from recent events the current crop of politicians from both sides of the commons will be remembered amongst the worst in history. I am certain that the people that led us down the brexit path will be vilified in time, Boris and Corbyn will be remembered as extremes of thinking that neither party will want to replicate in future.

Meanwhile we the electorate have to shoulder the burden of all of the nonsense this lot are setting us up for. My only remaining hope is that our current political system is totally smashed to pieces and replaced with something fit for purpose, because whatever we have now isn't doing the job.

[i-Ram]

14 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Many a true word...

Care to enlarge on what you are implying?

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Boris and Corbyn will be remembered as extremes of thinking that neither party will want to replicate in future.

I kind of don't get this. We have a third option - why are the Lib Dems not picking up lots of support as the "middle of the road" option?

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I kind of don't get this. We have a third option - why are the Lib Dems not picking up lots of support as the "middle of the road" option?

Because even some remainers agree that you simply can't cancel the referendum vote;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-lib-dems-change-tune-on-brexit-amid-voter-hostility-2g58q96s9

[Angry Ram]

22 minutes ago, Highgate said:

There comes a point when science is not debatable anymore and it just becomes scientific fact.  Like with gravity or evolution.  Are you 'open minded' there or only listening to one side of the debate on those subjects?

Forget about climate model projections to begin with and just start with basic indisputable physics.

Indisputable fact 1:  Solar radiation in the form of visible light passes through the Earth's atmosphere and heats up the Earth's surface.  The Earth then re-radiates this heat back into space in the form of longer wavelength infrared radiation, some of which is trapped and absorbed by greenhouse gases, thereby warming up the atmosphere.  

Indisputable fact 2:  It is the presence of these greenhouse gases in the atmosphere that make this planet habitable in the first place, raising the average global temperature by about 30 C.

Indisputable fact 3:  Greenhouse gases concentrations in the atmosphere are increasing due to human activity.

When one of those facts do you think you can argue with, if you can't refute any of them then surely you have to accept man-made global warming as a fact. 

Incidentally Russia is one country that is not remotely worried about global warming.  They are heavily dependent on selling fossil fuels...they don't have many cities by the coast...and they quite like the prospect of Siberia warming up and potentially becoming fertile farmland.  They are wrong not to be worried but that seems to be the prevailing opinion there. 

 

But the point is, it is debatable.. Plenty of science days differently.. The planet warms and cools, always has, always will. 20 years ago we were heading fir an ice age, now we are all going to melt in 10 years. Just how good is this science you are so keen to bang on about and call it ‘indisputable fact’? 

How long ago was the industrial revolution? How long does it take to have an effect on the climate?

By the way.. Raising the average temperature by 30oC.. Would like to see something that backs that up..

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Care to enlarge on what you are implying?

That some folk do place more emphasis on the good things in life than social care as your own post suggested, albeit in humorous terms. Was it not clear?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 hours ago, King Kevin said:

Good man ,but turning it on it's head your parents are helping you out ,I do the same for my kids and grand kids.I'm sure your mum and dad have worked hard all their lives to be able to do that for you.

I want to spend my hard earned cash on my family ,not on some undeserving person that abuses the system .Of course I want to pay for the real needy / NHS but unfortunately it's not paying the tax that I mind it's what they spend it on. 

I understand the point you’re making. I just think that it’s worth funding the odd person who abuses the system if it means helping those who really deserve it. The taxation system is never going to be perfect, but I guess where opinions start to diverge is how far should we take the principle of using the money of the rich to help the poor (be they deserving or undeserving). 

As I’ve said, I’d never fall out with anyone over a political belief, unless they were pretty extreme. We all believe that our opinions are the right ones, otherwise we wouldn’t have an argument to make. I don’t wish any ill will to the people I strongly disagree with, like @AdamRam in this thread or @Archied in football-related discussion.

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Proof please of the Movember thing.. I’ve seen your picture and I think you might be in a rebate situation to those who sponsored you.

 

In all seriousness, you seem to have a really balanced outlook on life for one as young as you and that is great.. I am hugely lucky with my current situation, I had no qualifications just a good work ethic. I now pay the national debt with my tax but I have no problem with that. All I ask is that it is used wisely and that is why I will vote for the Tory’s this time. We are in a position now where we can give back and that is great. Some of our friends think we are mad but when retirement is secure, the kids are self sufficient and you have money to do whatever you want to do.. Then it’s a great position to give some extra back. I’ve always been family first, we look after ourselves, number one priority..

Keep with your principles mate, you seem to have had a great upbringing and know good from bad. Youth gets a bad rep but you restore my faith in it.. You know how to have a great time and enjoy everything about being young and foolish but keep the basics in order. Good luck to you.

I have said to my friends that I’m committing fraud by asking people for money to support my embarassing lack of facial hair!

Thank you very much for your kind words though, I truly do appreciate it.