The Politics Thread 2019

[Andicis]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Went to London at the weekend. Drove to Lichfield, £18 return, £12 parking for the weekend. Cheaper than driving.

Yeah, but the reason a lot of people take the train is because they don't have a car. Driving to somewhere it's cheaper to get a train from doesn't solve that problem for them. 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Ah 'leftie snowflakes' - reverting to your demeaning type in no time at all I see. I wonder whether @maxjam considers this response petty or not. What say you Max?

No, I think he will understand it was posted in jest because I doubt he is frantically thrashing his keyboard like you appear to be doing today (that's another light hearted dig by the way)

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

And this is how you get dragged into petty arguments ?

Just read the last few pages of the thread this morning and its mostly petty back and forth.  I was trying to keep out of it but here I am - so this will be my last comment on it.

So you read it, were offended, but took time to call out others as 'petty'. OK mate. I think we get the drift.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, but the reason a lot of people take the train is because they don't have a car. Driving to somewhere it's cheaper to get a train from doesn't solve that problem for them. 

Well I'm guessing they dont live at Derby train station so have to get there somehow? Can probably get to Lichfield on 2 buses for £5.

Do agree that train prices are ridiculous but if you shop around and break journeys down its much cheaper.

[SaintRam]

[Andicis]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Well I'm guessing they dont live at Derby train station so have to get there somehow? Can probably get to Lichfield on 2 buses for £5.

Do agree that train prices are ridiculous but if you shop around and break journeys down its much cheaper.

And how long would that take? I get that you can shop around and make it cheaper, but it should be cheap and convenient anyway. It shouldn't cost over £50 to get a train down to London. 

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, but the reason a lot of people take the train is because they don't have a car. Driving to somewhere it's cheaper to get a train from doesn't solve that problem for them. 

My lad's in the same situation. He lives in central London so parking is pretty much impossible but on the upside, public transport is pretty amazing so no biggy. The issue is that when he comes to me or goes anywhere outside of London, he has to use trains or coaches. The latter seems the prefered option based on cost but journey times can be pretty long! 

On the brightside, for the cost of half a dozen rail fares you can buy an old banger. Unfortunately, you'll jhae to sell a your liver to cover the cost of insuring it.

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Andicis said:

And how long would that take? I get that you can shop around and make it cheaper, but it should be cheap and convenient anyway. It shouldn't cost over £50 to get a train down to London. 

30 or 40 minutes, its certainly not convenient. 

Agree that it should be cheaper.

People shopping around and using cheaper alternatives would force prices down though.

I had this very conversation over the weekend. My mate was saying how good our rail network is. Was astounded anyone could think that, it's an embarrassment compared to many other places in Europe.

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, I think he will understand it was posted in jest because I doubt he is frantically thrashing his keyboard like you appear to be doing today (that's another light hearted dig by the way)

Ah I see. So in your world, Muslim-bomb jokes are funny. Thanks for clarifying.

And you seem to be posting as much as me so I'm guessing you're thrashing around at your keyboard too, though that's not an image anyone will want to consider for too long.

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do agree that train prices are ridiculous but if you shop around and break journeys down its much cheaper.

We're agreeing (Nurse!)

That was kind of my point. The last time I went to London (for the Charlton game) - it was about £90 for a return (Derby-St Pancras) by the time the match tickets went on sale 

Went to Euston via changing at Tamworth and it was about £60. Buying the Derby to Tamworth and the Tamworth to Euston legs separately knocked another £10 off that - but was still £50. It just makes no sense - so a centrally managed affordable ticketing system is long overdue

 

[Andicis]

Just now, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

My lad's in the same situation. He lives in central London so parking is pretty much impossible but on the upside, public transport is pretty amazing so no biggy. The issue is that when he comes to me or goes anywhere outside of London, he has to use trains or coaches. The latter seems the prefered option based on cost but journey times can be pretty long! 

On the brightside, for the cost of half a dozen rail fares you can buy an old banger. Unfortunately, you'll jhae to sell a your liver to cover the cost of insuring it.

Yeah, it's not too bad for me between Derby and Sheffield, with a railcard I can get a £3 fare, but whenever I go to London I go by coach, it's simply not cost effective for me to get a train. And half the time when I get the train, I can't get a seat, I've not had an on time train for my last 10 journeys. It's expensive and bad service, I think it's inexcusably poor the system we have for rail. 

[Comrade 86]

Just now, Andicis said:

Yeah, it's not too bad for me between Derby and Sheffield, with a railcard I can get a £3 fare, but whenever I go to London I go by coach, it's simply not cost effective for me to get a train. And half the time when I get the train, I can't get a seat, I've not had an on time train for my last 10 journeys. It's expensive and bad service, I think it's inexcusably poor the system we have for rail. 

Dare I mention privatisation of the railways? ? 

All joking aside, the trains have never run on time but at least when I was a kid they were cheap and late rather than expensive and late. 

[Stive Pesley]

17 minutes ago, maxjam said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50621621

Labour's manifesto contained a pledge to make rail travel cheaper but no details about what that would entail.

33% cut = 1.5bn/year

But you've linked to an article with much the same detail. Literally the next line to the one you quote explains where the money is coming from

Quote

The party said the proposal to slash fares by a third would cost £1.5bn per year and be covered by Vehicle Exercise Duty 

In your defence though - It's the usual poor journalism. The article admits it's covered in the manifesto as part of the rail re-nationalisation. And that larger cost IS detailed in the manifesto, but not broken down to this level. So the ZOMG! HOW WILL THEY PAY FOR IT?! brigade are being played here

All that's happening here is Labour are fleshing out the details and making it clear of the tangible benefits that people will see. This is not the "new uncosted idea" that certain quarters are trying to paint it as

 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

We're agreeing (Nurse!)

That was kind of my point. The last time I went to London (for the Charlton game) - it was about £90 for a return (Derby-St Pancras) by the time the match tickets went on sale 

Went to Euston via changing at Tamworth and it was about £60. Buying the Derby to Tamworth and the Tamworth to Euston legs separately knocked another £10 off that - but was still £50. It just makes no sense - so a centrally managed affordable ticketing system is long overdue

 

As I said in an earlier post, if we sat down and discussed politics over a few beers, you'd probably be amazed on some of the things we agreed on, my Labour supporting mate was.

Then again you may just still think I'm a pudding head.

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

But you've linked to an article with much the same detail. Literally the next line to the one you quote explains where the money is coming from

The next line is;

The party said the proposal to slash fares by a third would cost £1.5bn per year and be covered by Vehicle Exercise Duty - money the Conservatives have earmarked for roads.

You can slash rail fares by 33% but people will still need roads - where's the money for new roads/repairs coming from?  And why are we taxing road users for rail users?

[Stive Pesley]

This is interesting - all those "Labour borrowing plans are unaffordable" comments - they better not be hoping for a no-deal Brexit then

Quote

In that no-deal scenario, the IFS sees the national debt (the total amount of money owed by the government) as clearly higher under a Conservative no-deal outcome than under Labour, heading up to 80% of GDP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50628644

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

 And why are we taxing road users for rail users?

Because, for the sake of the planet,  it's imperative that society stops proliferating the use of cars

We should absolutely be taxing road use to encourage sustainable, affordable, convenient public transport systems

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

This is interesting - all those "Labour borrowing plans are unaffordable" comments - they better not be hoping for a no-deal Brexit then

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50628644

If we leave without a deal, it will not be down to any party. 

Leave/Remain was a cross party issue. 

If we leave without a deal, politicians from all parties will be responsible.

The Conservatives have put 2 deals on the table.

[maxjam]

Just now, SchtivePesley said:

Because, for the sake of the planet,  it's imperative that society stops proliferating the use of cars

We should absolutely be taxing road use to encourage sustainable, affordable, convenient public transport systems

But thats simply not practical is it? 

To get to my nearest train station its a 30 minute drive or about 2 hours on a magical mystery tour bus ? Lots of people live and work miles from train stations and/or need them at impractical times.

Furthermore the UK car industry alone employs around 40k people and has a turnover of £6bn.  Who is Corbyn going to tax if they shut down!

You can take the money from car tax to spend on the railways but the roads will still need to be maintained - even if you removed 100% of cars you'd have to replace some of them with buses and other public transport options, you would also see a rise in Sainsbury's home delivery services etc as no one can get to the shops anymore.

[Ghost of Clough]

40 minutes ago, Andicis said:

And how long would that take? I get that you can shop around and make it cheaper, but it should be cheap and convenient anyway. It shouldn't cost over £50 to get a train down to London. 

You need to split your train ticket up. I just checked Derby-London return which is £62. Derby-Lichfield-London is £45. Choose a specific time and it'll be cheaper. Choose better stations to change at and it'll be cheaper still (often you don't even have to change trains).