The Politics Thread 2019

[1of4]

3 hours ago, jono said:

You really need to grow up and stop finding someone to blame. There are a lot of people that need skills and help but not a lot of money to go round. And yes there are some slimy companies sucking on the public purse .. they sit nicely with the morons who demand all sorts of stuff from the NHS but have no concept of what it costs, it’s just there and expected. Missed my appointment, no worries I’ll just book another.

Yes the NHS is a jewel in our crown of civilisation and we must strive to keep it but there are thousands, literally thousands who abuse it or take it for granted. Blaming governments of any stripe for its failings is a cop out and avoids facing personal responsibility and the individual need we all have to respect it and use it properly with care and respect. Every major political party knows we need it and wants to make it work. You’re stupid or biased beyond belief if you think otherwise. 

Never mind thousands, more like tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of  British people who abuse and take our magnificent health care system for granted. Dead easy this finding someone to blame isn't it.

I was born and raised when the NHS was still relatively new. When my parents were growing up, good health care wasn't available to them. So they understood the need cherish the NHS and not to go running to a doctor at the first sign of a sniffle or upset stomach. This is something that they instilled into me from an early age. It's a pity that to many people no longer cherish our wonderful NHS.

As for blaming governments of all colours sorry stripes, I must start using the new PC terminology, I'm not the only one. Just look how many posters on this site have said that our political system is failing.

Oh as for growing up. No thanks always been a big kid at heart, even more so, now I've got three grandchildren to play with.

Sorry if I rambled a bit or didn't make a lot of sense. But ay I'm an idiot or so I've been told.

[Ambitious]

I genuinely don't know who to vote for - I've always been a bit of a swing voter, albeit my alliance is arguably closer to the Lib Dems than Labour or Conservative. I would typically vote for Labour in such circumstances, but I really cannot trust Corbyn with the garbage he's coming out with at the moment. 

He's suggesting that he will negotiate this wonderful deal with the EU, which definitely isn't going to happen, then he's going to give the people the chance to vote on it. The absolute baalocks about McDonalds workers earning £15 an hour has completely turned me off. It's completely nonsensical. I think his become a bit of a parody of himself over the past year or so, I thought his last campaign was actually quite constructive. 

I just don't trust the conservatives in all honesty, yet I feel they have a better handle on reality. They support businesses and trust them to support their workers, although it doesn't always happen. I find Labour don't trust businesses to support their workers and plan to take it out of their hands, although the result would be business having to make cut backs, i.e. put people out of work. Automation is fast growing in almost every industry - it would only encourage others to invest more in machinery and plant than workers - especially those who are just surviving as it is. 

Lib Dems, well, they just want to stop Brexit. I've always been closer towards remain because I don't trust those in Government to have significantly more responsibility than they do now and to make it better. I could obviously be wrong, but as I mentioned above - I don't trust the current Government so Brexit is an uncomfortable change for me. The rest of the Lib Dems policies, again, seem based on unrealistic ideology. It's not convincing. The last time they were part of a collation, they were simply there in name and nothing else. 

I'd say if nothing changes, I will be reluctant to vote at all. Labour is almost a certain no for me at this point and I never thought I'd vote conservative. S**tshow of the highest order. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

6 hours ago, jono said:

Had it ever occurred to you where dividends go ? 

Most dividends I.e. profits .. go to investment funds. The investment funds pay the pensions of very ordinary retirees be they ex employees of Rolls Royce or an ordinary sole tradesmen who contributes to a private pension. 
 

and for every fat cat privateer there is a fat cat public sector manager with a gold plated final salary state backed pension that we are paying for out of income tax and council tax 

 

 

The United States spends close to 20 percent of its gross domestic product on health care,  twice as much as in Britain. Prices for tests, drugs and hospitalizations are far higher than in other developed countries. Outcomes are worse than in the UK, and there are millions living in poverty who have no cover and huge medical debts.

It is simply not true that we are being exploited for our own good and that it all finds its way back into our own pockets after the corporations have taken their cut.

[Gritstone Ram]

For what it’s worth, from what I can see so far is Boris Johnson is running a far better campaign than Teresa May. It certainly seem like they are prepared to spend more. Jeremy Corbyn hasn’t had the spark he had last time around at the moment. There is still time. Jo Swinson seem to be an also ran and her remain policy doesn’t seem to be attracting the 48% people thought it would. Farage is a one trick pony without much of a trick anymore. The Greens haven’t had much coverage. I think if they were a bit more realistic they could do better. Obviously in England we don’t hear much about the SNP or Welsh. 

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I genuinely don't know who to vote for - I've always been a bit of a swing voter, albeit my alliance is arguably closer to the Lib Dems than Labour or Conservative. I would typically vote for Labour in such circumstances, but I really cannot trust Corbyn with the garbage he's coming out with at the moment. 

He's suggesting that he will negotiate this wonderful deal with the EU, which definitely isn't going to happen, then he's going to give the people the chance to vote on it. The absolute baalocks about McDonalds workers earning £15 an hour has completely turned me off. It's completely nonsensical. I think his become a bit of a parody of himself over the past year or so, I thought his last campaign was actually quite constructive. 

I just don't trust the conservatives in all honesty, yet I feel they have a better handle on reality. They support businesses and trust them to support their workers, although it doesn't always happen. I find Labour don't trust businesses to support their workers and plan to take it out of their hands, although the result would be business having to make cut backs, i.e. put people out of work. Automation is fast growing in almost every industry - it would only encourage others to invest more in machinery and plant than workers - especially those who are just surviving as it is. 

Lib Dems, well, they just want to stop Brexit. I've always been closer towards remain because I don't trust those in Government to have significantly more responsibility than they do now and to make it better. I could obviously be wrong, but as I mentioned above - I don't trust the current Government so Brexit is an uncomfortable change for me. The rest of the Lib Dems policies, again, seem based on unrealistic ideology. It's not convincing. The last time they were part of a collation, they were simply there in name and nothing else. 

I'd say if nothing changes, I will be reluctant to vote at all. Labour is almost a certain no for me at this point and I never thought I'd vote conservative. S**tshow of the highest order. 

Just vote tactically to get a non-Brexit party in power. A far right Tory Brexit will be hideous.

[Ghost of Clough]

21 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Just vote tactically to get a non-Brexit party in power. A far right Tory Brexit will be hideous.

And you think a coalition of pretty much everyone else won't be worse? ?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

And you think a coalition of pretty much everyone else won't be worse? ?

Nothing could be worse than the Friends of Trump, formerly known as the Conservative Party, taking power.

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Nothing could be worse than the Friends of Trump, formerly known as the Conservative Party, taking power.

Horrific isn't it, maintaining relations with the world super power. 

Much rather us cosy up to Luxembourg, Albania and Slovenia and pay them to be part of our club. 

[Wolfie]

47 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Nothing could be worse than the Friends of Trump, formerly known as the Conservative Party, taking power.

Hmmm, friends of America vs friends of Venezuela, where the economy has been trashed by Corbyn's mates despite having the world's largest oil reserves. It is a tough one, alright.

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Hmmm, friends of Anerica vs friends of Venezuela, where the economy has been trashed by Corbyn's mates despite having the world's largest oil reserves. It is a tough one, alright.

Look on the bright side though, if WWIII ever did kick off at least we could rely on our friends Hamas to protect us!

[1of4]

8 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Hmmm, friends of Anerica vs friends of Venezuela, where the economy has been trashed by Corbyn's mates despite having the world's largest oil reserves. It is a tough one, alright.

Venezuela may have the largest oil reserves but it's not listed in the top ten of oil producing countries. Could this be  reason why the USA at the behest of the major oil companies have been behind some of the destabilization of the Venezuelan government. These oil companies want to get the oil out of the ground. They can then flood the world market, that will then drive down crude oil prices, so meaning more profit for themselves.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Horrific isn't it, maintaining relations with the world super power. 

Much rather us cosy up to Luxembourg, Albania and Slovenia and pay them to be part of our club. 

Yes, our main trading partners ought to be countries like France and Germany, not Albania, which is why Brexit is so bloody stupid.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Yes, our main trading partners ought to be countries like France and Germany, not Albania, which is why Brexit is so bloody stupid.

You cant have just France and Germany as trading partners.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You cant have just France and Germany as trading partners.

Stop stating the obvious. 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Stop stating the obvious. 

Not sure what your point was then?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure what your point was then?

The point is that Britain is cutting its nose to spite its face, and if you haven't got the point yet you never will.

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

The point is that Britain is cutting its nose to spite its face, and if you haven't got the point yet you never will.

So why did you suggest that France and Germany instead of Albania when you know such arrangements are not possible?

Have I missed something which says that we cannot continue to trade with the EU after we have left?

Or is this another one of them stories where we pretend all of our trade will be done with America after Brexit in return for handing them the NHS on a plate?

[Wolfie]

34 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Venezuela may have the largest oil reserves but it's not listed in the top ten of oil producing countries. Could this be  reason why the USA at the behest of the major oil companies have been behind some of the destabilization of the Venezuelan government. These oil companies want to get the oil out of the ground. They can then flood the world market, that will then drive down crude oil prices, so meaning more profit for themselves.

Except that the economic and social crisis began several years before any sanctions or international involvement.

[Ramshankered]

9 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I genuinely don't know who to vote for - I've always been a bit of a swing voter, albeit my alliance is arguably closer to the Lib Dems than Labour or Conservative. I would typically vote for Labour in such circumstances, but I really cannot trust Corbyn with the garbage he's coming out with at the moment. 

He's suggesting that he will negotiate this wonderful deal with the EU, which definitely isn't going to happen, then he's going to give the people the chance to vote on it. The absolute baalocks about McDonalds workers earning £15 an hour has completely turned me off. It's completely nonsensical. I think his become a bit of a parody of himself over the past year or so, I thought his last campaign was actually quite constructive. 

I just don't trust the conservatives in all honesty, yet I feel they have a better handle on reality. They support businesses and trust them to support their workers, although it doesn't always happen. I find Labour don't trust businesses to support their workers and plan to take it out of their hands, although the result would be business having to make cut backs, i.e. put people out of work. Automation is fast growing in almost every industry - it would only encourage others to invest more in machinery and plant than workers - especially those who are just surviving as it is. 

Lib Dems, well, they just want to stop Brexit. I've always been closer towards remain because I don't trust those in Government to have significantly more responsibility than they do now and to make it better. I could obviously be wrong, but as I mentioned above - I don't trust the current Government so Brexit is an uncomfortable change for me. The rest of the Lib Dems policies, again, seem based on unrealistic ideology. It's not convincing. The last time they were part of a collation, they were simply there in name and nothing else. 

I'd say if nothing changes, I will be reluctant to vote at all. Labour is almost a certain no for me at this point and I never thought I'd vote conservative. S**tshow of the highest order. 

I posted this link earlier in the thread – a compelling argument (from an Oxford Economist) that the Conservative spending plan is actually less grounded in reality than Labour's: https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-differences-between-labour-and.html

As for supporting businesses – the conservatives very own ex-Justice Secretary was on BBC Breakfast this AM arguing that's no longer the case. This whole "Conservatives = party of economics" is fast becoming fake news. The moderates have left (or at least are on the periphery). It's fully in the grip of hard right crazies RN. 

Regarding trusting businesses to support their workforce – that trust has enabled companies like Amazon to make tons and tons of money while continuously shafting their workforce, weakening worker rights and paying pittance in tax. And yet workers are the wealth creators – even though the gap between them and bosses continues to grow. I don't see any problem with re-addressing that balance – at least for large businesses (small, family businesses should receive government support to achieve this).

Ultimately though it sounds like your heart is set on either not voting or spoiling your ballot. I can understand the disillusion with everything RN. My advice would be look at your local MP options rather than focus on party leaders, as in reality that's who you're voting for. Our local MP is Stella Creasy and she's been great for the community! 

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Much rather us cosy up to Luxembourg, Albania and Slovenia and pay them to be part of our club. 

What's wrong with Slovenia? A fantastic thriving country