The Politics Thread 2019

[Norman]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

He had his chance to give his opinion, he lost, and was told what to do.  Now he is trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities.  What don't you understand about that simple process

His responsibility is to comply with the law. He has. Not his fault the Act is full of holes as it was quickly enacted and poorly thought through in a desperate attempt to stop Brexit. 

The EU, by law, deals with Governments, not parliaments. 

[Norman]

On 17/10/2019 at 23:54, uttoxram75 said:

Referendum to leave the EU was called by a Tory Prime Minister in 2016 who then stepped down after the vote.

The next Tory Prime Minister's deal to leave was voted against by the ERG, a group of far right Tories who wanted a no deal Brexit.

If the Tory party had stuck together, Brexit would be done and dusted.

Labour have been out of government since 2010, yet its Labour's fault that Brexit is a mess.......maybe a tad of Tory bias going on there Norm?

 

Corbyn has been a weak leader of the opposition in my opinion.

He under estimated the powerful lobby's against him from within his own party. By his support for a Palestinian state he guaranteed the influential Labour Friends of Israel group would oppose him no matter what his policies were on anything else.

He should have concentrated on core policies of taking back control of the NHS, Transport, Education, Power and Water and not allowed himself to distracted by fringe policies that the Tory media seized upon to drive a wedge between the working class. The Tories have no principles of lying or omitting details about unpopular plans (Tories promise to increase spending on NHS when they mean extra money for multinational companies profiteering from the NHS).

I think Corbyn is a principled, decent, civilised bloke who opposes war, racism and poverty as a natural, human position. 

I also think he's too naive to be a modern politician. He's fully aware of the sinister forces against him but made it too easy for them to demonise  him.

My hope is that the Labour Party, post Corbyn, will continue to fight for the people it was created for in the first place going forward and not taken back by a Tory- lite faction that allowed the right to decimate public services and so created the anger of ordinary people that led to Brexit.

There is no point in civilisation and democracy if it doesn't use the combined strength of the people to eradicate poverty and suffering. We got very close to doing just that in our much maligned little island at one point. We could do it again if we stuck together but I fear the ruling class have found a way to divide us.

Corbyn's biggest threat to the current ruling class is his opposition to war. War creates millions of refugees, refugees create racism and fear, without racism and fear, people may actually question the ones running the show when their lives are miserable....you know, the ones creating the wars and misery, not the ones who oppose it.

 

 

Voted Tory once in my 31 years. 

Same as Labour. No bias here. 

Glad we agree Corbyn is a weak leader. Not sure why everyone has to be so defensive over it. 

Labour aren't a football team you have to support no matter what. They are a political party whose views continually shift one way or the other and voters should realise that. 

I just thought I would throw it out there to see which posters took the bait. Sad to see so many unable to even wrap their heads around what he is doing to the Labour Party. Was all the faces I expected to reply, though. Can't really have a debate if they can't accept clear faults of a politician and party they follow blindly no matter what. 

[GboroRam]

48 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And I suppose the manifestos that pledged to honour the result, and the votes to invoke Article 50 (which clearly stated we would leave without a deal if one not agreed) were also advisory and can be ignored because it suits Remainers agenda?

Dont make me laugh and try and quote democracy. It's been dead for over 6 months now.

Manifesto =/= law. And a second vote isn't revoking the result, it's confirming it still is "the will of the people". 

It's the Brexit supporters who were crowing about sovereignty. Seems you lot only want it when it suits. 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Manifesto =/= law. And a second vote isn't revoking the result, it's confirming it still is "the will of the people". 

It's the Brexit supporters who were crowing about sovereignty. Seems you lot only want it when it suits. 

The will of the people was already confirmed in the first Referendum. 

By invoking Article 50 it became law that we left with or without a deal on 31st March 2019.

Seems you lot only want to use the law when it suits you.

[Grumpy Git]

Anyone who can't accept a no-deal Brexit will cause us harm, let me give you a fact:

Since the start of the year my particular industry in the UK has been in meltdown as it's highly regulated. Basically no one is investing any money and a no-deal will put the final nail in the coffin.

I've just paid my VAT bill to HMRC, it was approximately £900. Last year, for the same period I paid just shy of £8,000 for the same period

Brexit, the gift which keeps on giving.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Anyone who can't accept a no-deal Brexit will cause us harm, let me give you a fact:

Since the start of the year my particular industry in the UK has been in meltdown as it's highly regulated. Basically no one is investing any money and a no-deal will put the final nail in the coffin.

I've just paid my VAT bill to HMRC, it was approximately £900. Last year, for the same period I paid just shy of £8,000 for the same period

Brexit, the gift which keeps on giving.

Is it no deal that is stopping investment t or is it uncertainty?

[Grumpy Git]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is it no deal that is stopping investment t or is it uncertainty?

Both, but a no-deal will be a total disaster.

As I've said on here previously, my revenue is at least 90% down on an average year at the moment. If I had any employees, they would have been laid-off three months ago.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Both, but a no-deal will be a total disaster.

As I've said on here previously, my revenue is at least 90% down on an average year at the moment. If I had any employees, they would have been laid-off three months ago.

What is your industry out of interest?

[Grumpy Git]

Engineering.

This article (which is fact, not speculation or fearmongering, despite the source) might give you a clue which sector:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/european-medicines-agency-closes-london-office-with-loss-of-900-jobs-brexit

 

 

[GboroRam]

22 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Engineering.

This article (which is fact, not speculation or fearmongering, despite the source) might give you a clue which sector:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/european-medicines-agency-closes-london-office-with-loss-of-900-jobs-brexit

 

 

Look on the bright side, there should be opportunities for picking fruit. 

[Grumpy Git]

They say you shouldn't wish your life away, but I almost wish I was a few years older so I could just retire and forget about the whole sorry mess.

My kids who are both at university are of the generation who will pay for all this crap.

[Sith Happens]

55 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Look on the bright side, there should be opportunities for picking fruit. 

Yeah. As many wonky bananas as we want. ?

[G STAR RAM]

47 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

They say you shouldn't wish your life away, but I almost wish I was a few years older so I could just retire and forget about the whole sorry mess.

My kids who are both at university are of the generation who will pay for all this crap.

Or they could be the generation  that thrive from a world of new opportunities.

[Grumpy Git]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or they could be the generation  that thrive from a world of new opportunities.

Maybe..................... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

All of this "get Brexit done" crap is people cutting off their noses to spite their faces as far as I can tell.

There wasn't even any big movement for the referendum, it was all brought about because some Tory MP's were scared of losing their seats to UKIP and persuaded Cameron to call the vote.

It's just a pity some people can't sometimes admit that "they got it wrong". I've dropped a few clangers in my time and I can honestly say it's therapeutic to swallow your price and apologise.

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Maybe..................... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

All of this "get Brexit done" crap is people cutting off their noses to spite their faces as far as I can tell.

There wasn't even any big movement for the referendum, it was all brought about because some Tory MP's were scared of losing their seats to UKIP and persuaded Cameron to call the vote.

It's just a pity some people can't sometimes admit that "they got it wrong". I've dropped a few clangers in my time and I can honestly say it's therapeutic to swallow your price and apologise.

All fair comments but not sure what I'm supposed to be admitting getting wrong?

[Comrade 86]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Maybe..................... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

It's just a pity some people can't sometimes admit that "they got it wrong". I've dropped a few clangers in my time and I can honestly say it's therapeutic to swallow your price and apologise.

Wouldn't hold your breath on that either my friend. Remainers are already being blamed for the Tories failure to deliver Brexit so if it does turn out to be an unmitigated disaster that ruins lives, there's not chance in hell that those who voted for it will put their hands up. ?‍♀️

[Stive Pesley]

21 hours ago, maxjam said:

Well to be fair @SchtivePesley went to Charlton today, he probably snuck out at half time its only a short hop on the train...

?

No I wasnt involved! 

I can guarantee you that no one in a Derby shirt was interested in attacking anything or anyone on Saturday afternoon in London ?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

46 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or they could be the generation  that thrive from a world of new opportunities.

There will be jobs after Brexit, but at much reduced rates of pay and with much inferior conditions. There will be no need to import cheap labour any more because native Britons will be dirt cheap and without rights.

Companies will go to the wall, reducing asset prices and allowing the hedge funds that pay the Tories to pick up businesses on the cheap.

They will then be able to hide their profits in tax havens under British control.

The whole aim of Brexit is to cause as much disruption as possible so that these policies can be implemented under the guise of emergency measures.

[cstand]

35 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

No I wasnt involved! 

I can guarantee you that no one in a Derby shirt was interested in attacking anything or anyone on Saturday afternoon in London ?

I would have attacked seven pints of beer after the game if I had gone to Charlton after that performance.?

 

[jono]

21 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

There will be jobs after Brexit, but at much reduced rates of pay and with much inferior conditions. There will be no need to import cheap labour any more because native Britons will be dirt cheap and without rights.

Companies will go to the wall, reducing asset prices and allowing the hedge funds that pay the Tories to pick up businesses on the cheap.

They will then be able to hide their profits in tax havens under British control.

The whole aim of Brexit is to cause as much disruption as possible so that these policies can be implemented under the guise of emergency measures.

I don’t follow your logic there. Why would the price of labour go down if there are fewer workers ? In any case with a deal there 

and before you go ape, I would prefer to remain, but if we have to leave then a deal is best. I simply don’t believe that any politician in the main stream wants to deregulate workers rights to the scaremongering extent that Corbyn and his ilk are trying to suggest. He and the current Labour Party are nothing more than opportunists with an entirely different agenda that has eff all to do with in or out and everything to do with personal power and influence. 

Despite the idiocy of having a referendum in the first place (a conservative/Cameron gamble to shut the brexit element up  - that failed spectacularly) the opposition parties have also covered themselves in a pile of poo with their selfish one eyed reactions that sit very comfortably with the large number of bigots who voted for Brexit on immigration grounds. 
 

our political class of all colours are diabolical, self centred, greedy, corrupt and so far up their own xxxx that for me, the majority are beneath contempt. I have never felt so un represented in my entire life. Lip service to constituents at every level from city to country. Bereft of honest pragmatism and a desire to make things work.