The Politics Thread 2019

[A Ram for All Seasons]

8 minutes ago, jono said:

I simply don’t believe that any politician in the main stream wants to deregulate workers rights to the scaremongering extent that Corbyn and his ilk are trying to suggest.

I do

[A Ram for All Seasons]

18 minutes ago, jono said:

I don’t follow your logic there. Why would the price of labour go down if there are fewer workers ? In any case with a deal there 

True, the supply of workers  will be lower, but demand for their services will fall even more sharply if the economy tanks because of all the disruption caused by Brexit, as has been predicted.

 

[jono]

8 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

True, the supply of workers  will be lower, but demand for their services will fall even more sharply if the economy tanks because of all the disruption caused by Brexit, as has been predicted.

 

Just maybe if parliament had worked together for the people we might not need to crash out and can simply continue sensible working arrangements between historic trading partners. But oh no ... that not possible with the loathsome ideologues at the extremes of the Conservative party and most of the Labour Party’s current leadership

nope mate it isn’t about in or out it’s about nasty ideologies and you can pick between the right wing bigots and the left wing Trots .. as bad as each other. 

[Norman]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

There will be jobs after Brexit, but at much reduced rates of pay and with much inferior conditions. There will be no need to import cheap labour any more because native Britons will be dirt cheap and without rights.

Companies will go to the wall, reducing asset prices and allowing the hedge funds that pay the Tories to pick up businesses on the cheap.

They will then be able to hide their profits in tax havens under British control.

The whole aim of Brexit is to cause as much disruption as possible so that these policies can be implemented under the guise of emergency measures.

Except the Withdrawal Agreement keeps us in line with EU worker's rights etc. We can improve them, but not make them worse. We were world leaders in paternity pay and leave, so I wouldn't make out that any future government will tear everything up. 

As for pay going down. Rubbish. 

[Norman]

24 minutes ago, jono said:

Just maybe if parliament had worked together for the people we might not need to crash out and can simply continue sensible working arrangements between historic trading partners. But oh no ... that not possible with the loathsome ideologues at the extremes of the Conservative party and most of the Labour Party’s current leadership

nope mate it isn’t about in or out it’s about nasty ideologies and you can pick between the right wing bigots and the left wing Trots .. as bad as each other. 

Sums my feelings up very well. 

[cstand]

5 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Manifesto =/= law. And a second vote isn't revoking the result, it's confirming it still is "the will of the people". 

It's the Brexit supporters who were crowing about sovereignty. Seems you lot only want it when it suits. 

You mean a once in a generation second vote?? 

[ariotofmyown]

29 minutes ago, jono said:

Just maybe if parliament had worked together for the people we might not need to crash out and can simply continue sensible working arrangements between historic trading partners. But oh no ... that not possible with the loathsome ideologues at the extremes of the Conservative party and most of the Labour Party’s current leadership

nope mate it isn’t about in or out it’s about nasty ideologies and you can pick between the right wing bigots and the left wing Trots .. as bad as each other. 

So Theresa May immediately produced her red lines, then spent forever sorting out her own deal, that was then not supported by tonnes of MPs including Brexiteers.

Then Johnson is allowed to take over, tells everyone that he wants to work together, then shuts down Parliament. Comes up with a deal and gives MPs 25 minutes to say yes and they vote for more scrutiny. This includes customers border in Irish Sea which he had recently said he wonder never allow.

If it hadn't been for opposition parties and Tory rebels, Brexit would have been done by now and we would have got a rubbish deal. This current deal is the best we can get, and it's hopeless. Far right Brexiteer Rabb thinks it's a cracking deal for Northern Ireland as they can have frictionless trade with the EU. Can we have that too please?

  

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, Norman said:

Except the Withdrawal Agreement keeps us in line with EU worker's rights etc. We can improve them, but not make them worse. We were world leaders in paternity pay and leave, so I wouldn't make out that any future government will tear everything up. 

As for pay going down. Rubbish. 

When exactly? And are you sayimg that the EU has prevented us remaining so?

[Norman]

1 minute ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

When exactly? And are you sayimg that the EU has prevented us remaining so?

No, they are in line with us and have been for a while now. But we were world leaders for it and campaigned for it. 

This country is great, mate. 

[jono]

26 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So Theresa May immediately produced her red lines, then spent forever sorting out her own deal, that was then not supported by tonnes of MPs including Brexiteers.

Then Johnson is allowed to take over, tells everyone that he wants to work together, then shuts down Parliament. Comes up with a deal and gives MPs 25 minutes to say yes and they vote for more scrutiny. This includes customers border in Irish Sea which he had recently said he wonder never allow.

If it hadn't been for opposition parties and Tory rebels, Brexit would have been done by now and we would have got a rubbish deal. This current deal is the best we can get, and it's hopeless. Far right Brexiteer Rabb thinks it's a cracking deal for Northern Ireland as they can have frictionless trade with the EU. Can we have that too please?

  

Everyone forgets that there are 2 parties in a negotiation. Ground has to be given to reach a certain objective. Has the EU been helpful ? i don’t think so. And the laughable suggestion that JC could get a better deal that would lead to light and sunshine for all is beyond farce. 
The  referendum was a huge mistake, pandering to party bigots and gratefully grasped by more bigots ( lefty and righty)  in the electorate. If the EU wasn’t  so desirous of a federal Europe and more interested in just getting on together it also might never have happened but it did. 
meanwhile JC who actually wants out because he can’t nationalise and subsidise industry (with what I don’t know ! ) simply moans on the fence hoping he can take power after the fallout.  And the European Elite just draw their pensions and benefits all funded by you and me. And yes on the right the vultures are looking for an edge with glee. And Boris, he’d be alright if he didn’t think he was Churchill, which he isn’t. He’s just a reasonably educated show man who likes his ego massaging.
 

.. I love Europe, I consider myself European. I want to be in a partnership with Europe, but our parliament, politicians and the institution of the EU is rotten to the core and both are so self serving it makes me want to vomit.

i wish the lot of them a nice journey to hell on a hand cart, sadly they are taking us with them ! 

 

[Norman]

27 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So Theresa May immediately produced her red lines, then spent forever sorting out her own deal, that was then not supported by tonnes of MPs including Brexiteers.

Then Johnson is allowed to take over, tells everyone that he wants to work together, then shuts down Parliament. Comes up with a deal and gives MPs 25 minutes to say yes and they vote for more scrutiny. This includes customers border in Irish Sea which he had recently said he wonder never allow.

If it hadn't been for opposition parties and Tory rebels, Brexit would have been done by now and we would have got a rubbish deal. This current deal is the best we can get, and it's hopeless. Far right Brexiteer Rabb thinks it's a cracking deal for Northern Ireland as they can have frictionless trade with the EU. Can we have that too please?

  

How did Jeremy Corbyn decide its contents in 25 minutes? 

That amused me. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

29 minutes ago, Norman said:

As for pay going down. Rubbish. 

I work for a chemical company and used to do lots of work for the leather industry, which has now more or less disappeared from Europe. Clark's shoes used to be made in Shepton Mallet with leather made in Yeovil. Now everything is made in Vietnam. Luckily, my company has a no compulsory redundancies agreement, so I have been moved on to other work.

If I had to look for another job, my pay and conditions would be very much worse. Thank goodness I will be retiring very soon.

[1of4]

28 minutes ago, Norman said:

Except the Withdrawal Agreement keeps us in line with EU worker's rights etc. We can improve them, but not make them worse. We were world leaders in paternity pay and leave, so I wouldn't make out that any future government will tear everything up. 

As for pay going down. Rubbish. 

Were the present paternity pay and leave laws implemented  by our own Parliament or by the EU? 

Oh wait. Paternity pay and leave laws must have been implemented under EU legislation. As we are constantly told by brexiteers, that the reason they voted leave, was to regain sovereignty and take back control of our own laws.

[Norman]

4 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Were the present paternity pay and leave laws implemented  by our own Parliament or by the EU? 

Oh wait. Paternity pay and leave laws must have been implemented under EU legislation. As we are constantly told by brexiteers, that the reason they voted leave, was to regain sovereignty and take back control of our own laws.

You can give our country credit where its due. It is OK to do that. 

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I work for a chemical company and used to do lots of work for the leather industry, which has now more or less disappeared from Europe. Clark's shoes used to be made in Shepton Mallet with leather made in Yeovil. Now everything is made in Vietnam. Luckily, my company has a no compulsory redundancies agreement, so I have been moved on to other work.

If I had to look for another job, my pay and conditions would be very much worse. Thank goodness I will be retiring very soon.

Yet my line of work will see conditions improve. Undoubtedly so.

[jono]

11 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I work for a chemical company and used to do lots of work for the leather industry, which has now more or less disappeared from Europe. Clark's shoes used to be made in Shepton Mallet with leather made in Yeovil. Now everything is made in Vietnam. Luckily, my company has a no compulsory redundancies agreement, so I have been moved on to other work.

If I had to look for another job, my pay and conditions would be very much worse. Thank goodness I will be retiring very soon.

Welcome to the real world which has nothing to do with Europe and the EU and a lot to do with other countries in the east that don’t have our standards. We need to stop moaning about nasty employers at home and start looking at why and how China, India, Vietnam are allowed to trade with us when they ride roughshod over the employment conditions and rights that we insist on. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

6 minutes ago, jono said:

Welcome to the real world which has nothing to do with Europe and the EU and a lot to do with other countries in the east that don’t have our standards. We need to stop moaning about nasty employers at home and start looking at why and how China, India, Vietnam are allowed to trade with us when they ride roughshod over the employment conditions and rights that we insist on. 

It's Gresham's Law

[1of4]

18 minutes ago, Norman said:

You can give our country credit where its due. It is OK to do that. 

So it was our parliament that implemented the paternity pay and leave laws then. According to brexiteers, we can't do that.

[Comrade 86]

49 minutes ago, Norman said:

No, they are in line with us and have been for a while now. But we were world leaders for it and campaigned for it. 

This country is great, mate. 

I'm not saying it's not I'm trying to understand what point you are making that's all. For the record, the following chart illustrates leaves allowances across the EU. We have fallen a long way behind many countries which is why I asked whether you blame the EU for this as well as the reasons you most often cite. FOr the record, I am proud to be English just less proud of what we have become and that is something I feel many Brexiters fail to take onboard. Just my opinion of course, but one I'm as entitled to as the next guy.

[1of4]

27 minutes ago, jono said:

Welcome to the real world which has nothing to do with Europe and the EU and a lot to do with other countries in the east that don’t have our standards. We need to stop moaning about nasty employers at home and start looking at why and how China, India, Vietnam are allowed to trade with us when they ride roughshod over the employment conditions and rights that we insist on. 

So what are all these great trade deals, that Johnson and co. claim we will easily obtained, with these countries look like? Better or worse for our country, than what we currently trade under as part of the EU?