Wolfie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Meanwhile... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50036463 Labour's nationalisation plans would cost at least £196bn, according to the Confederation of British Industry. The employers' group said the up-front cost of taking control of the water and energy utilities, train firms and Royal Mail was equivalent to all income tax paid by UK citizens in a year. It was the combined total of the £141bn health budget, and the £61bn spent on education, analysis by the CBI said. A Labour Party spokesman said it was "incoherent scaremongering" by the CBI. John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has said that nationalisation would be cost-neutral as the companies' profits would cover the cost of borrowing needed to finance it. Hang on....I thought these companies charging too much and making profits was a bad thing?. Now those profits are going to pay the interest on the inflated national debt. Not to mention the poor track record of nationalised industries making a profit in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Norman said: It's a massive problem. Not going in to bat on this one without a clearer view of what we're talking about as the "problem". I'm talking about G Star's perception of entire families where none of them work and they all claim benefits. I don't think that is especially widespread, purely based on the fact that 1) it's hard to remain on benefits under the current regime of sanctions and 2) it's really not that lucrative to do so Is that where you're coming from too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Hang on....I thought these companies charging too much and making profits was a bad thing?. I think the nuance there is that it's a bad thing if the profit is lining the pockets of private corporations (many of them overseas companies who can't quite believe their luck that the stupid British are happy to let them cream money from the British taxpayer!) But anyway - to digress slightly, did I just read that re-nationlising the railways is in the Tories Queen's speech?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: But anyway - to digress slightly, did I just read that re-nationlising the railways is in the Tories Queen's speech?!! Only caught the very end of it, so don't know. This doesn't really shed any light...(BBC) A shake-up of the rail franchising system in England is also being proposed to improve reliability, reduce "fragmentation" and introduce a "greater distance" between ministers and the day-to-day running of the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Only caught the very end of it, so don't know. This doesn't really shed any light...(BBC) A shake-up of the rail franchising system in England is also being proposed to improve reliability, reduce "fragmentation" and introduce a "greater distance" between ministers and the day-to-day running of the network. Hmm - seems to have been reworded from what the BBC said yesterday would be in the proposals Quote Scrapping the rail franchise system - the contracting out of services introduced when the rail system was privatised in the 1990s. Reforms will focus on getting trains to run on time, a simplified fares system, a new commercial model and industry structure, and new proposals for a skilled, diverse and engaged workforce. That bit in bold sounded a lot like re-nationalisation to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On the subject of benefit fraud and those who see false claimants all around them (you know who you are), here's a couple of interesting insights to consider. Firstly the benefit cheats hotline - for those surrounded by cheats, plagued even (as a couple on here seem to be), there's a hotline by which you can grass up folk you think are claiming benefits illegally. Not my cup of tea as I'm from the snitches get stitches school of thought but it seems plenty of folk are more than happy to use it, even when they are hopelessly wide of the mark. Here's a wee snippet to whet your whistle... .......information obtained by The Independent through freedom of information laws reveals that over the financial years 2015-16 and 2016-17, 332,850 cases were closed following reports by members of the public. Of these, 287,950 were found to have no or little evidence to substantiate the claim – or 87 per cent. Full article here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-fraud-public-tip-offs-legal-action-police-no-evidence-dwp-work-pensions-department-a8144096.html Interestingly, current estimates put last year's benefit fraud figure at around £2.3 billion whereas tax evasion cost the Exchequer in excess of 15 times that figure. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Unless a poster is being out and out offensive. I don't see why anyone needs to demand the removal of a post or the poster by the sites moderators. I've never felt the need to put another member on the ignore list. If there was a particular poster who's views I dislike, I'm quite capable if I come across their name, of skipping that post and moving onto the next post. Are we now so use to living in a nanny state that some people can't even decide what they do or don't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Unless a poster is being out and out offensive. I don't see why anyone needs to demand the removal of a post or the poster by the sites moderators. I've never felt the need to put another member on the ignore list. If there was a particular poster who's views I dislike, I'm quite capable if I come across their name, of skipping that post and moving onto the next post. Are we now so use to living in a nanny state that some people can't even decide what they do or don't read. I agree with this, though I do have one particularly tedious member on ignore (the problem with the ignore function is that you sometimes get a flash of their immaturity when someone replies to them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Hmm - seems to have been reworded from what the BBC said yesterday would be in the proposals That bit in bold sounded a lot like re-nationalisation to me I think the plan is just give it all to Branson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: I respect that's your view, but personally I highly doubt it's as big a problem as you perceive. The fact is that means-testing of benefits is already pretty draconian under the current regime. It might be frustrating to observe a minority who you think are gaming the system - but to try and clampdown further in order to lock them out would have much wider ranging negative consequences. At the end of the day you can't have a Welfare State that is based on people's gut feelings of "who is the most deserving". Far too subjective Once again, I think this is where people live in a parallel universe to me, or only see what they want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: On the subject of benefit fraud and those who see false claimants all around them (you know who you are), here's a couple of interesting insights to consider. Firstly the benefit cheats hotline - for those surrounded by cheats, plagued even (as a couple on here seem to be), there's a hotline by which you can grass up folk you think are claiming benefits illegally. Not my cup of tea as I'm from the snitches get stitches school of thought but it seems plenty of folk are more than happy to use it, even when they are hopelessly wide of the mark. Here's a wee snippet to whet your whistle... .......information obtained by The Independent through freedom of information laws reveals that over the financial years 2015-16 and 2016-17, 332,850 cases were closed following reports by members of the public. Of these, 287,950 were found to have no or little evidence to substantiate the claim – or 87 per cent. Full article here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-fraud-public-tip-offs-legal-action-police-no-evidence-dwp-work-pensions-department-a8144096.html Interestingly, current estimates put last year's benefit fraud figure at around £2.3 billion whereas tax evasion cost the Exchequer in excess of 15 times that figure. Make of that what you will. You are very fortunate. I know plenty on the fiddle. But the main problem is working 15 hours a week at Asda and then the rest of us paying the rent on your nice 3 bed semi, the expensive labels your kids wear etc, when in reality the kids are 14 and now 16 and the mum could be at work full time paying her own way. There are 2 in my immediate family. It is quite unbelievable that some of you live in areas where you never come across it. Mind you, the houses round the corner from me has a sign each. Dun robbin Dun stealin Nice Range Rover too one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Norman said: You are very fortunate. I know plenty on the fiddle. But the main problem is working 15 hours a week at Asda and then the rest of us paying the rent on your nice 3 bed semi, the expensive labels your kids wear etc, when in reality the kids are 14 and now 16 and the mum could be at work full time paying her own way. There are 2 in my immediate family. It is quite unbelievable that some of you live in areas where you never come across it. Mind you, the houses round the corner from me has a sign each. Dun robbin Dun stealin Nice Range Rover too one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: On the subject of benefit fraud and those who see false claimants all around them (you know who you are), here's a couple of interesting insights to consider. Firstly the benefit cheats hotline - for those surrounded by cheats, plagued even (as a couple on here seem to be), there's a hotline by which you can grass up folk you think are claiming benefits illegally. Not my cup of tea as I'm from the snitches get stitches school of thought but it seems plenty of folk are more than happy to use it, even when they are hopelessly wide of the mark. Here's a wee snippet to whet your whistle... .......information obtained by The Independent through freedom of information laws reveals that over the financial years 2015-16 and 2016-17, 332,850 cases were closed following reports by members of the public. Of these, 287,950 were found to have no or little evidence to substantiate the claim – or 87 per cent. Full article here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-fraud-public-tip-offs-legal-action-police-no-evidence-dwp-work-pensions-department-a8144096.html Interestingly, current estimates put last year's benefit fraud figure at around £2.3 billion whereas tax evasion cost the Exchequer in excess of 15 times that figure. Make of that what you will. Its a tough one. I don't think i would shop anyone, but essentially everyone claiming benefits they shouldn't costs the rest of us money. Would I shop a friend or family member? No idea..honestly I doubt it. I suspect that a lot of the reports come from people bearing a grudge or just not understanding what fraud is. I am sure its really difficult to prove someone is claiming benefits and committing fraud. If someone claiming benefits gets paid £50 cash in hand for an odd job or two, unless you catch them red handed its hard to prove. I suppose the obvious ones where someone claims to be wheelchair bound but posts pictures on facebook of climbing mount everest are very rare too. I would be interested to know what the threshold is for investigation, does it need to look like its significant amounts before its investigated, or will they happily spend a few thousand investigating that fella who takes £50 cash in hand for an odd job now and then? 2.3 Billion is not to be sniffed at mind, That could save lives, provide medication for those in need, it would not be insignificant to the NHS. Although we would probably just spend it on gastric bands for people who can't be bothered to diet (I know i know....i'll shut up on that one). That said the news article focuses on 87% so can only assume the figures for actual benefit fraud are 13% which is no low number. Its still a worthwhile exercise surely. Tax Evasion is massive as you say. I am willing to bet more of us know someone who willingly takes cash, or doesn't disclose full earnings compared with actual benefit fraud. We are, at least a lot of us are, guilty in a way. We can find Amazon et al legally avoiding tax offensive, yet very few of us when quoted a price to fix that roof, or lay that patio will request to pay the higher price compared with the 'cash' price, yet we know why we are being quoted cheaper for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I agree with this, though I do have one particularly tedious member on ignore (the problem with the ignore function is that you sometimes get a flash of their immaturity when someone replies to them). People who put posters on their ignore list are the immature ones IMO never used it never will. They like the sound of their own opinions but cannot stand anyone else with a differing view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, cstand said: People who put posters on their ignore list are the immature ones IMO never used it never will. They like the sound of their own opinions but cannot stand anyone else with a differing view. Agreed - without the opposing voices that challenge what you think, there is little point in contributing to this thread. It's rare to find a moderated non-echo chamber place to chat about stuff where people aren't threatening each other with firing squads ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I'd be interested to know just how many I have infuriated sufficiently to put me on their ignore lists. I'm a really nice person in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: I'd be interested to know just how many I have infuriated sufficiently to put me on their ignore lists. I'm a really nice person in real life. Who said that? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Who said that? ? Haha - joking aside, another thing that cheers me up is when I see the posters in this thread who I largely disagree with being generally nice people in ther other threads. Particularly where another member has shared a personal difficulty, or a loss. Nice to be reminded that people are generally alright when it comes down to personal interactions- even (grits teeth) Tories ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, cstand said: People who put posters on their ignore list are the immature ones IMO never used it never will. They like the sound of their own opinions but cannot stand anyone else with a differing view. That is to misrepresent my motives. I am not afraid of differing opinions, as you know full well. It’s just boring listening to the same poison from the same person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: Who said that? ? Bugger. I had myself on ignore, but some pillock quoted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.