GboroRam Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, WharfedaleRam said: If there was to be a second Ref., then presumably the only options which should be on the paper will be leave options (i.e. one or more options based on likely deals plus one option for no deal). As there has already been a ref which concluded that we should leave, the option to remain should NOT appear on the second ref paper. If remain is allowed as one of the options, then a multiple choice leave option merely waters down the leave vote leading to a likely remain outcome. Or am I being stupid.........!? There are transferrable voting methods where it wouldn't necessarily mean a split vote, but they are unfamiliar to UK voters so may be unreasonable to expect people to learn it ahead of such a big decision. I honestly think a second vote would still be to leave, so it doesn't make much sense to me. I just wish we'd spent 3 years preparing, increasing production capacity, building checkpoints and lorry park areas, recruiting people to run the infrastructure, working with farmers to breed and plant sufficiently to cover what we need. But we waited two years, started talking about stockpiling and not having enough medicine, gave some money to some people to plan a ferry route (who had no experience - or ferries) and generally twiddled thumbs. I think we need a couple of years of hard preparation to be ready to leave in an organised fashion. No deal with no preparation is suicide IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Eh? Have we had the outcome of a possible GE yet? Do you have the Euro Millions numbers for the weekend? Are you Doctor Who in disguise? Running scared ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Van Wolfie said: How about: 1. Remain in the EU 2. Leave - with Teresa May's Deal (or another version of soft Brexit - Norway+?) 3. Leave - Hard Brexit, no deal. 1st and 2nd preferences scoring 1 and 0.5 respectively. If no option wins over 50% of the first preference vote, count second preferences and highest score wins? Already item 2 becomes 2a, 2b etc. I would put Remain last in very small type, preferably over the page, but that's just me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Running scared ? Of ….. ? A GE is just another big question mark with all kinds of possible outcomes …. ask Theresa (though I think she is having a good couple of days right now ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, GboroRam said: There are transferrable voting methods where it wouldn't necessarily mean a split vote, but they are unfamiliar to UK voters so may be unreasonable to expect people to learn it ahead of such a big decision. I honestly think a second vote would still be to leave, so it doesn't make much sense to me. I just wish we'd spent 3 years preparing, increasing production capacity, building checkpoints and lorry park areas, recruiting people to run the infrastructure, working with farmers to breed and plant sufficiently to cover what we need. But we waited two years, started talking about stockpiling and not having enough medicine, gave some money to some people to plan a ferry route (who had no experience - or ferries) and generally twiddled thumbs. I think we need a couple of years of hard preparation to be ready to leave in an organised fashion. No deal with no preparation is suicide IMO. You and your flashy, show-boaty, practical common sense .. You just need floppy or wavy hair, a good PPT presentation and some top drawer sound bites. Do you know nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Van Gritters said: Yeah and Derby won the league, the good old days. Are you stuck in the past? Times move on. 8 hours ago, Van Wolfie said: Ah yes, the good old days of 30% inflation, Humiliating IMF bailout, massive industrial decline, strikes, power cuts & brown Austin Allegros. Yeah, yeah, left mesen open to that one!? The point I was trying to make (very badly), was how we cannot now afford to fund public services yet a few individuals get richer and richer. Brexit or not, we will still be faced with the same battle for a just and fair society against the criminals and tax avoiders who fund people like Farage and Johnson. The past I would like to be stuck in is a NHS free of foreign corporations trying to bleed it dry and Schools with less than 30 people per teacher. I admit I'm blinkered and biased toward my elderly parents and young grandchildren though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 57 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Of ….. ? A GE is just another big question mark with all kinds of possible outcomes …. ask Theresa (though I think she is having a good couple of days right now ?) I saw a picture of her earlier grinning like the Cheshire Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: Yeah, yeah, left mesen open to that one!? The point I was trying to make (very badly), was how we cannot now afford to fund public services yet a few individuals get richer and richer. Brexit or not, we will still be faced with the same battle for a just and fair society against the criminals and tax avoiders who fund people like Farage and Johnson. The past I would like to be stuck in is a NHS free of foreign corporations trying to bleed it dry and Schools with less than 30 people per teacher. I admit I'm blinkered and biased toward my elderly parents and young grandchildren though. Probably a bit of a simplistic view here but... The richest individuals in our society pay a huge share of the income tax burden. If you are on about the corporations, who are avoiding tax, then who is it making them rich? Its us. And the best way of showing them what they are doing is unacceptable is to stop using them. It won't happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? Our self serving bunch of idiot politicians are doing a good enough job, thats the best chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Probably a bit of a simplistic view here but... The richest individuals in our society pay a huge share of the income tax burden. If you are on about the corporations, who are avoiding tax, then who is it making them rich? Its us. And the best way of showing them what they are doing is unacceptable is to stop using them. It won't happen though. I see it differently. From what I have seen, read and listened to over the years I believe its deliberate government policy, driven by corporate greed, to give wealth to the rich at the expense of the poor. Its called austerity, a policy that never works for the least well off, or for that matter, the JAM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? Considering they are so set on the MP's having a say, there's something i recently came across that should have been part of the referendum package which they'd probably be against on reality. That as part of the vote, each constuency had a remain and leave candidate. Then after the result, this second house...3rd ? would vote to represent the interests of their constuents, when it came to the final deal or no deal. Which overwhelming would based on the outcome, have been leave representatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: I see it differently. From what I have seen, read and listened to over the years I believe its deliberate government policy, driven by corporate greed, to give wealth to the rich at the expense of the poor. Its called austerity, a policy that never works for the least well off, or for that matter, the JAM's. We've gone from a society in the late to mid 70's, when one wage earner could provide for a large family's needs individually, to a society that needs both parents working full time in well paid employment just to enjoy the blessing/curse of one or two kids! We've witnessed the greatest transferal of wealth away from the average Joe to the upper echelons of society in the last 30 years than at any point in history, and not even noticed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: I see it differently. From what I have seen, read and listened to over the years I believe its deliberate government policy, driven by corporate greed, to give wealth to the rich at the expense of the poor. Its called austerity, a policy that never works for the least well off, or for that matter, the JAM's. Something the EU like imposing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? Boris Johnson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? No Deal delayed. New referendum with No Deal vs Remain as it's clear there is no possible deal. Maybe Leave but staying in Custom Union. Remain wins easily. Election with anti-Tory coalition in power. Those who believe all the garbage about Corbyn been a Communist will be ok as he will be reigned in by other parties. Farage forms paramilitary group and gets arrested for hate speech after inciting Far Right groups to violence. Johnson buys a big shed and writes his memoirs. None of them are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy the hare Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Uptherams said: Considering they are so set on the MP's having a say, there's something i recently came across that should have been part of the referendum package which they'd probably be against on reality. That as part of the vote, each constuency had a remain and leave candidate. Then after the result, this second house...3rd ? would vote to represent the interests of their constuents, when it came to the final deal or no deal. Which overwhelming would based on the outcome, have been leave representatives. Yes that would have been logical progress. To many MPs are voting in the commons either on their own views or remain personal gains, not what the majority of their constituents actually vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Remy the hare said: Yes that would have been logically progress. To many MPs are voting in the commons either on their own views or remain personal gains, not what the majority of their constituents actually vote for. MPs’ job is to vote on their own views. We select them and give them that job for their constituency. Not the majority in their constituency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Question for the Remainers. What do you see as your best chance of having Brexit overturned and do you think it is achievable? Go big. Tell Trump to buy the European Union countries instead of Greenland. Yeeeeeeehaa!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy the hare Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: MPs’ job is to vote on their own views. We select them and give them that job for their constituency. Not the majority in their constituency. Your hilarious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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