Championship or Premier League?

[Mucker1884]

I love being nearer the top of the Championship, as opposed to nearer the bottom of the Prem.

I love the unpredictability of it all, and agree with comments re real v plastic fans etc.

I don't get heartbroken (any more) if and when we fail to go up.

But ultimately, it is about competition.  About trying to be numero uno (again!).

We have to try to get there.  We have to try to stay there.  We have to try to win the damn thing.

Then... and only then... should we start to think about beating the Scouser's Five big pots!  LOL.

[LeedsCityRam]

Great question & one I struggle with to be honest

On the one hand, its quite pleasant being a big fish at this level, winning more games than we lose & not having to suffer the patronising nonsense from Sky/MOTD pundits.

But we have history - we've won 2 League titles, had multiple top 5 finishes (as recent as 88/89), & played some of the very best in Europe. In that context, playing year after year of second tier football alongside plucky little clubs & other fallen giants feels like a kind of purgatory. We should be aiming to be the best we can be & yes, that means playing in the top division AND competing in that division (i.e. not obsessed with finishing 17th)

2007/08 will undoubtedly sway people's answers but we couldn't possibly be that bad again - it really was a unique set of circumstances in what was a very strong division at the time. 

[KCG]

I wonder what Brian Clough would say?!

[FindernRam]

3 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

It gives hope and belief.  If you don't have that then you might as well start the season off looking forward to the following season in the championship.

It is called ambition, with out that there is no point.

Not true. My ambition was/is to own a Ferrari, it will not happen, but I still enjoy driving my bog standard oldmanmobile.  I want to be entertained at a match. Generally that means winning with a bit of style. More likely in the Championship

 

2 hours ago, DcfcJB said:

with the size of this club and the players we could attract

Not true either. Derby is a small place with very little to attract modern star players. Many of the smaller promoted clubs have said how they struggle to get players in. Partly it is the expectation of a one or two season struggle which becomes a self fulfilling prophesy, and the myth becomes fact. Could you se a modern version of Charlie George, Dave Mackay, Frannie Lee wanting to come here.

 

3 hours ago, David said:

Since we were relegated, how many of our previous 10 Championship seasons have genuinely been exciting with just 3 resulting in us being top 6?

Before Steve McClaren arrived I would struggle to pick one season which offered sustained periods of excitement and attendances reflected that.

Agreed which is why each year I've almost not renewed. That lesson appears to have registered with Mel and we are playing a  better style. But we are not dominating this league so stand no chance higher up

 

3 hours ago, David said:

Since Steve McClaren arrived we have been promotion contenders, but it’s not sustainable with 3 clubs being relegated with Premier League money each season. As the seasons roll by the Championship will be split and without serious investment and FFP rework it will be a struggle to break into the top half. 

Parachute money is totally unfair but actually I get the feeling that its impact hasn't been that helpful to demoted clubs in terms of climbing back up. (I haven't had time to look at the numbers, just a feeling).

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

 

 

Parachute money is totally unfair but actually I get the feeling that its impact hasn't been that helpful to demoted clubs in terms of climbing back up. (I haven't had time to look at the numbers, just a feeling).

yeh I get that but I still feel the gap will continue to widen and even if we do get promoted it will be a shock to compete with 'ordinary' teams that have had the benefit of multi millions for a few seasons.  only going to get worse

[1of4]

7 hours ago, FindernRam said:

I've watched a lot of games and in general the Championship games are the more exciting. The Prem is often a chess game (Top 8 against each other) or one side parking the bus (most other games). Not hugely exciting.

The Prem is totally money driven and you will not break into the top 6 or so, so what's the point. Yes Leicester did by a miracle but only for one season. The Prem is going the way of F1, its not a race, or competition its a procession to the crowning date.s

All professional football is money driven. We as a reasonably well supported club would struggle to compete with other clubs at the top of the Championship if it wasn't for a benevolent owner. The longer we remain in this division, the bigger the financial gap will be between us and clubs that have reached the Prem. Making it harder to compete with them.

The FA Cup still holds the allure and romance for players from lower or none league clubs, who dream of playing one of the big clubs in front of a large crowd. Their chairman on the other hand dream of being drawn to play at a big club because they realise that the money generated from such a tie will secure the club financially for years to come.

[Rev]

3 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Not true either. Derby is a small place with very little to attract modern star players. Many of the smaller promoted clubs have said how they struggle to get players in. Partly it is the expectation of a one or two season struggle which becomes a self fulfilling prophesy, and the myth becomes fact. Could you se a modern version of Charlie George, Dave Mackay, Frannie Lee wanting to come here.

A really good point.

I'm pretty sure Charlie said it was an easy decision, as at the time Derby were just as successful and as big a draw as Arsenal. You couldn't make that claim now.

Foreign players want to be in London, who can blame them it must be a  fantastic place to live if you're wealthy enough?

I read that one of the problems at Sunderland was attracting players, and if they were bidding against a London club they'd have to stick another couple of million in the wage packet to attract players, one of the main reasons they ended up in such a mess financially.

We'd end up with overseas players we hadn't heard off before, looking to use us a stepping stone to a bigger club, or fringe British players from the bigger clubs.

Fine if you unearth a Kante, Mahrez, Van Dyke, Mane etc, but for every one of those there are 5 players who make little impact on massive money, and the ones that do soon agitate for a move once a bigger club comes sniffing.

Under Jim Smith, we had some cracking overseas players, and some gems from the fringes of bigger clubs too, but football is a much smaller world today in terms of unearthing a bargain, or bringing in a older head who can still do the job.

We may find another Wanchope or Carbonari, but we'd have less hope of plucking a Delap or Higginbotham from under the noses of rivals, and next to no chance of a Eranio or Biaino chancing their arm.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go up and have a crack, particularly under a Lampard type manager, but I won't cry if we don't, the championship is a fantastic league to be in 

[Dimmu]

I don't really have a strong preference for this.

I will watch all the Derby games possible no matter the league we'll be playing. At the same time, I'll follow Championship more than PL, just because I find it the most interesting and competitive league in the world.

Firmly on the fence, happy with both options.

[Sparkle]

Championship is good fun and exciting with some great days out, premiership is basically boring and uncompetitive 

But

an owner can not sustain losses and we need the premiership money sadly 

But if the ‘top six’ in the premiership would kindly clear off in some ego super league which I wouldn’t watch it would be much better !

[europia]

Most fans would want their team competing in the top flight. Question is, would we be competing or battling to survive? If we could have a few seasons like the ones under Jimmy Smith when we were in the top half of the table and able to take points off Manu, Arsenal and Liverpool, then yes. Bring it on.

[jono]

The yokel in me loves and enjoys the championship .. more wins than losses, Saturday afternoon out. Real fans, no hype, Splendid and enjoyable constitutional routine. All is right with the world. 

But am I happy driving a sensible 1.6L .. or do I really crave for something a bit more exotic with 12 cylinders that sound like no thing else on earth. Championship is Pizza Express at best. Enjoyable, with some integrity but you know what they don’t really offer Barolo and Porcini mushrooms which being a closet elitist I want to taste with regularity 

Prem for me but as I’m not paying for it I  am be patient ?

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

We need to go up for Mel's sake. Hopefully we do go up, keep our spend sensible and give him a return. 

[Rampage]

10 hours ago, David said:

I did, and I replied to your opinion which is what forums are for, having discussions?

Fulham post Christmas were dominant in the Championship, they are currently sat bottom of the Premier League and not looking like moving unless things drastically improve after spending close to £100m.

I remember last season fans saying they would smash it up their with the football they play but it hasn’t happened.

Compare that to Huddersfield who scraped in and through the play offs, spent half the money and are still up there. 

Waiting for the fairy tale of destroying the Championship and then taking the Premier League by storm is just that, a fairy tale.

I take your points, David. ?

[Rampage]

2 hours ago, reveldevil said:

A really good point.

I'm pretty sure Charlie said it was an easy decision, as at the time Derby were just as successful and as big a draw as Arsenal. You couldn't make that claim now.

Foreign players want to be in London, who can blame them it must be a  fantastic place to live if you're wealthy enough?

I read that one of the problems at Sunderland was attracting players, and if they were bidding against a London club they'd have to stick another couple of million in the wage packet to attract players, one of the main reasons they ended up in such a mess financially.

We'd end up with overseas players we hadn't heard off before, looking to use us a stepping stone to a bigger club, or fringe British players from the bigger clubs.

Fine if you unearth a Kante, Mahrez, Van Dyke, Mane etc, but for every one of those there are 5 players who make little impact on massive money, and the ones that do soon agitate for a move once a bigger club comes sniffing.

Under Jim Smith, we had some cracking overseas players, and some gems from the fringes of bigger clubs too, but football is a much smaller world today in terms of unearthing a bargain, or bringing in a older head who can still do the job.

We may find another Wanchope or Carbonari, but we'd have less hope of plucking a Delap or Higginbotham from under the noses of rivals, and next to no chance of a Eranio or Biaino chancing their arm.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go up and have a crack, particularly under a Lampard type manager, but I won't cry if we don't, the championship is a fantastic league to be in 

Got to be done with home grown. Players and starlets from. Elsewhere but need some experienced pros in the mix. 

[DCFC27]

7 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Not true. My ambition was/is to own a Ferrari, it will not happen, but I still enjoy driving my bog standard oldmanmobile.  I want to be entertained at a match. Generally that means winning with a bit of style. More likely in the Championship

 

Not true either. Derby is a small place with very little to attract modern star players. Many of the smaller promoted clubs have said how they struggle to get players in. Partly it is the expectation of a one or two season struggle which becomes a self fulfilling prophesy, and the myth becomes fact. Could you se a modern version of Charlie George, Dave Mackay, Frannie Lee wanting to come here.

 

Agreed which is why each year I've almost not renewed. That lesson appears to have registered with Mel and we are playing a  better style. But we are not dominating this league so stand no chance higher up

 

Parachute money is totally unfair but actually I get the feeling that its impact hasn't been that helpful to demoted clubs in terms of climbing back up. (I haven't had time to look at the numbers, just a feeling).

With the greatest respect fella, you're talking utter tripe... we don't need to attract star players we need players capable of playing in the premier league, staying in there firstly and trying to challenge for top half. Arguably Burnley/Bournemouth/Leicester even Watford aren't great the most attractive places to be but they come for the managers/style of play/playing time/money etc not just the place. In addition for a modern footballer Derby is decently located in the country doesn't take long to get to London/Manchester/Liverpool etc. 

Watford and Bournemouth have managed consistently to entertain their fans and win games no reason we cant do the same.

I'm sure you 'almost not renewing' each year has really resonated with Mel, clearly gave him nightmares every year and clearly appointed Frank just for you! For which I must thank you. Again its about building something here, its incredible how well FL has transformed the team in a few months, id rather make judgements of whether we'd be good in the prem at the end of the season. Just look how Fulham really kicked on last year.

I'm not expecting us to go up there and dominate the league but if you need any inspiration as to why you should want to be in the prem just look at Leicester and the memories they made! Success comes from ambition and you have to be in it to win it! 

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 04/12/2018 at 22:08, B4ev6is said:

All preamship side tickets cap at £30

B4 I love your positivity but have you gone stark, staring mad???? 

?????

[B4ev6is]

4 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

B4 I love your positivity but have you gone stark, staring mad???? 

?????

It is a fact they cap at £30 mate

Were some of games near £40 mark in the champership these days.

[angieram]

@B4ev6is is right - that's true for all away tickets in the Premier League.

Can charge more in cups and can price home tickets higher.

[mozza]

A  Jack Marriott would cost 10 times more to buy after promotion than before promotion, even a Conor Sammon would cost about £7m.

 

[FindernRam]

11 hours ago, DcfcJB said:

'm sure you 'almost not renewing' each year has really resonated with Mel, clearly gave him nightmares every year and clearly appointed Frank just for you! For which I must thank you.

Sarky!  The context was about exciting games. I wish I had that amount of influence, but Mel had seen the gate numbers fall, heard the comments , not from just me , but many fans. That would be worrying him--and he was probably as bored as the rest us!