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LB_DCFC

Jacob Butterfield - Joined Bradford City on loan

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15 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Bang on. He can’t play 4-3-3 (and don’t say he got 8 goals in the clement/wassall season), he’s never had the engine, he can’t tackle, takes too many touches doesn’t look up enough. Him and Johnson coming into the midfield was a big reason why Chris Martin started to become isolated up front. 

He has good technique undoubtedly, quick feet and skilful but he was the wrong fit for the Derby and certainly couldn’t do anything in this team now. He’s never justified the £4m price tag, don’t blame him - I’m sure a team playing him in the right position in the right system (not sure what that is) could get a decent player on their hands as Huddersfield had.

I know for a fact that we paid a lot more for him than that. In the last bid we had rejected, that was around what we offered to pay upfront so will be a significantly larger overall figure...

Edited by YorkshireRam

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4 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

But Martin isn't here anymore? Marriott is quite the opposite of Martin and will make clever little runs in behind the back line where as Martin looked to play with his back to call and bring other players in to play, which is where Bryson got all of his success under McClaren and is probably why he isn't as effective now.

This is where my point of having a player with better technical ability is coming in, somebody who can make the passes further up field to slide the ball in behind the defence? Something I don't think Bryson has the ability to do.

We have that though - Mount

As with most things the best football team is made up of a selection of players with different but complementary talents - We already have a whole raft of players (Mount, Wilson, Lawrence, Waghorn etc) who do that - Plus Huddlestone who can do it from pretty much anywhere on the park (I swear that boy could play a through ball to a striker from inside his own box...)

What we need to balance that is a hard working safety player - Bryson is tidy, smart and energetic - He's part of every attack and every defence - He isn't over-complex but he's very tidy and his close control and short passing is excellent

I understand you obviously like Butterfield - And I have pretty much the same level of passion about where Thorne is - But the simple equation is that Mount is currently doing the Butterfield role and he's much better at it

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8 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

We have that though - Mount

As with most things the best football team is made up of a selection of players with different but complementary talents - We already have a whole raft of players (Mount, Wilson, Lawrence, Waghorn etc) who do that - Plus Huddlestone who can do it from pretty much anywhere on the park (I swear that boy could play a through ball to a striker from inside his own box...)

What we need to balance that is a hard working safety player - Bryson is tidy, smart and energetic - He's part of every attack and every defence - He isn't over-complex but he's very tidy and his close control and short passing is excellent

I understand you obviously like Butterfield - And I have pretty much the same level of passion about where Thorne is - But the simple equation is that Mount is currently doing the Butterfield role and he's much better at it

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I love Bryson as much as every Derby fan does. I just think this season we have been better when he hasn't been in the side and he hasn't been as involved as I would have liked. We have arguable looked best without him in the side (West Brom, Middlesborough, Chelsea, Hull cup) are the ones that stick out most. So is the hard working Bryson kind of player really that valuable? or is he just a fan favourite that could be replaced with more skill, ability?

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2 hours ago, JoeDerby said:

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I love Bryson as much as every Derby fan does. I just think this season we have been better when he hasn't been in the side and he hasn't been as involved as I would have liked. We have arguable looked best without him in the side (West Brom, Middlesborough, Chelsea, Hull cup) are the ones that stick out most. So is the hard working Bryson kind of player really that valuable? or is he just a fan favourite that could be replaced with more skill, ability?

I'm not sure it's that simple - From my perspective on it anyway - West Brom and Chelsea came at us and that's where we thrive - If an opponent plays open, attack minded football we do well because that's what we want to play as well - Hull put out an extremely weak side in the cup against us (as we saw in the very next game)

If you were making the case that Holmes should be played instead of Bryson I might be more persuaded - But I think Butterfield would be trying to do the same job as Mount and they'd potentially both be looking for the same positions in the middle

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I also think we have played better without Bryson in the side. Everyone says his energy and running does good for the side but I look at him and I have been to every game this season and I just don't see what energy people are talking about he looks knackered even before half time and there isn't much pace in him anymore. For example there was a breakaway first half and the ball went out wide and Bryson was running for it yet Ashley Williams who is dog slow got there before him and put it out for a throw. I just don't see the value of him in there and would rather put Wilson in there and play waghorn on the right. Wilson plays so much better there and his 2 goals against Swansea were from the inside midfield role where he had drifted in and is wasted out wide for me. Also waghorn does the dirty side better than Wilson out wide and covers bogle loads which is where bogle gets caught out when played with Wilson as he doesn't get as much protection.

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Agree with the above. Ill never slag Bryson off as he is a legend, but he isnt the same player anymore. Wilson was much more influential when playing centrally. The performances against Middlesbrough, West Brom & Chelsea were the most consistent performances of the season as a team and all came with Wilson playing centrally with Mount.

25 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

I also think we have played better without Bryson in the side. Everyone says his energy and running does good for the side but I look at him and I have been to every game this season and I just don't see what energy people are talking about he looks knackered even before half time and there isn't much pace in him anymore. For example there was a breakaway first half and the ball went out wide and Bryson was running for it yet Ashley Williams who is dog slow got there before him and put it out for a throw. I just don't see the value of him in there and would rather put Wilson in there and play waghorn on the right. Wilson plays so much better there and his 2 goals against Swansea were from the inside midfield role where he had drifted in and is wasted out wide for me. Also waghorn does the dirty side better than Wilson out wide and covers bogle loads which is where bogle gets caught out when played with Wilson as he doesn't get as much protection.

 

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10 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

One of our best performances was against Man Utd or  possibly West Brom. What team did we play for them?

West Brom -

1 Carson

37 Bogle

6 Keogh

5 Tomori

46 Malone

7 Wilson

44 Huddlestone

8 Mount

9 Waghorn

14 Marriott

10 Lawrence

 

 

United - 

1 Carson

37 Bogle

6 Keogh

5 Tomori

3 Forsyth

4 Bryson

15 Johnson

20 Bennett

8 Mount

7 Wilson

28 Nugent

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1 hour ago, JoeDerby said:

West Brom -

1 Carson

37 Bogle

6 Keogh

5 Tomori

46 Malone

7 Wilson

44 Huddlestone

8 Mount

9 Waghorn

14 Marriott

10 Lawrence

 

 

United - 

1 Carson

37 Bogle

6 Keogh

5 Tomori

3 Forsyth

4 Bryson

15 Johnson

20 Bennett

8 Mount

7 Wilson

28 Nugent

So are arguably best 2 performances were completely different teams. Not sure what to conclude from that 

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16 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

I also think we have played better without Bryson in the side. Everyone says his energy and running does good for the side but I look at him and I have been to every game this season and I just don't see what energy people are talking about he looks knackered even before half time and there isn't much pace in him anymore. For example there was a breakaway first half and the ball went out wide and Bryson was running for it yet Ashley Williams who is dog slow got there before him and put it out for a throw. I just don't see the value of him in there and would rather put Wilson in there and play waghorn on the right. Wilson plays so much better there and his 2 goals against Swansea were from the inside midfield role where he had drifted in and is wasted out wide for me. Also waghorn does the dirty side better than Wilson out wide and covers bogle loads which is where bogle gets caught out when played with Wilson as he doesn't get as much protection.

2nd goal. 9 seconds box to box, assist to Wilson.

I also like Wilson in the center, but I don't like Lawrence and Josefzoon can't find any form so we're struggling for competition out wide with Bennett injured.

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18 hours ago, Ramdale said:

Agree with the above. Ill never slag Bryson off as he is a legend, but he isnt the same player anymore. Wilson was much more influential when playing centrally. The performances against Middlesbrough, West Brom & Chelsea were the most consistent performances of the season as a team and all came with Wilson playing centrally with Mount.

 

agree with this and actually ever since he got his new contract he has been a shadow of his former self I recall.  That miss against Swansea, if that had been BJ the site would have been on fire

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