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Jacob Butterfield - Joined Bradford City on loan

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On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 13:12, rynny said:

I'm sorry but they are your words not his. He actually said that Wednesday are a huge club, nothing bad about Derby. His only criticism towards the club was that the football that Rowett was going to play didn't suit his style, not exactly wrong was he? We can't criticise Rowett’s football and then criticise a player who also criticised Rowett's football, just makes us hypocrites.

Spot on. I wish people would stop getting butt hurt about this. Rowetts style didn't suit him. It didn't suit Will Hughes either and that's why the idiot sold him. Rowett was anti-football. Both JB and Hughes are technically very good. Hughes made similar comments when he went to Watford, but both were changed by some to look very different.

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I think I'm the only football fan in the world that rates Butterfield and probably the Huddersfield fans too.

I wish he could be given a chance under Lamps, he looked a class player when he first arrived, obviously took a big knock in confidence from our own fans and Wednesday fans but he has been played out of position at both clubs.

He was much better for us in a midfield 3 when he had the freedom in the final third to go and play. he's struggled in more defensive roles. He doesn't have the energy/legs Lampard demands from the two more attacking midfield players but he can play the killer pass that can open teams up. He's technically good. I think he has more to offer than Bryson now. Personal opinion, of course. 

He doesn't deserve the stick he's received at all. I'm actually quite embarrassed by it all. Hope he proves the haters wrong.

Queue the comment saying 'Butterfield, is that you?' 🙄

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23 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

He's technically good. I think he has more to offer than Bryson now.

I think he's a good player who has been one of the unlucky guys who's been screwed by the constant managerial changes - Like Martin in that respect for me - He just about fit in the Clement way of playing but every manager since then it hasn't been a good fit

I disagree though that he provides more than Bryson - The guy has shown again this season that he's powered by Duracell still - He's part of every attack and every defence, covers more ground than anyone else and provide help for the full backs when they come forward (when our wingers have gone walkabout) - He may not be as creative as other midfielders but he has quick feet and plays simple very well

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46 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think he's a good player who has been one of the unlucky guys who's been screwed by the constant managerial changes - Like Martin in that respect for me - He just about fit in the Clement way of playing but every manager since then it hasn't been a good fit

I disagree though that he provides more than Bryson - The guy has shown again this season that he's powered by Duracell still - He's part of every attack and every defence, covers more ground than anyone else and provide help for the full backs when they come forward (when our wingers have gone walkabout) - He may not be as creative as other midfielders but he has quick feet and plays simple very well

Bryson has been good, got to say has been my favourite player for the past 5 years. Looks leggy to me though, doesn't cover as much ground as he used to and he doesn't have the same spring in his step. Should definitely be in the squad though, but I think Butterfield would be a good option to have when Bryson looks tired, he works extremely hard in every game he plays so he will need some rest.

I just believe Lampard could work some magic with Butterfield and I'm hoping he gets that chance 🙂 

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5 hours ago, JoeDerby said:

I think I'm the only football fan in the world that rates Butterfield and probably the Huddersfield fans too.

I wish he could be given a chance under Lamps, he looked a class player when he first arrived, obviously took a big knock in confidence from our own fans and Wednesday fans but he has been played out of position at both clubs.

He was much better for us in a midfield 3 when he had the freedom in the final third to go and play. he's struggled in more defensive roles. He doesn't have the energy/legs Lampard demands from the two more attacking midfield players but he can play the killer pass that can open teams up. He's technically good. I think he has more to offer than Bryson now. Personal opinion, of course. 

He doesn't deserve the stick he's received at all. I'm actually quite embarrassed by it all. Hope he proves the haters wrong.

Queue the comment saying 'Butterfield, is that you?' 🙄

He has the ability to play that killer pass, yeah, the issue however is that he normally chooses a sideways or backwards pass instead...

Also when Huddlestone is in the side, anyone else's passing ability is going to pail in comparison and, with the recognition that Bryson is there for the energy to compensate for Huddlestone's lack of mobility and to enable Mount to roam, where does Butterfield fit in this system exactly?

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16 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

He has the ability to play that killer pass, yeah, the issue however is that he normally chooses a sideways or backwards pass instead...

Also when Huddlestone is in the side, anyone else's passing ability is going to pail in comparison and, with the recognition that Bryson is there for the energy to compensate for Huddlestone's lack of mobility and to enable Mount to roam, where does Butterfield fit in this system exactly?

He's only played the negative pass when he's been in the wrong area of the pitch - which is exactly my point, he's been played in the wrong position and been criticised for it. He doesn't want to be sat deep controlling the play like Huddlestone does. In my eyes, he's a better player in getting in behind the oppositions midfield - in more advanced area of the pitch, sliding passes into the strikers or wide players, he's much more creative than Bryson and do think against teams that are going to sit deep and let us have the ball - he would offer much more than Bryson does. 

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4 hours ago, JoeDerby said:

He's only played the negative pass when he's been in the wrong area of the pitch - which is exactly my point, he's been played in the wrong position and been criticised for it. He doesn't want to be sat deep controlling the play like Huddlestone does. In my eyes, he's a better player in getting in behind the oppositions midfield - in more advanced area of the pitch, sliding passes into the strikers or wide players, he's much more creative than Bryson and do think against teams that are going to sit deep and let us have the ball - he would offer much more than Bryson does. 

That's where I disagree because he's nowhere near as mobile and my point was that is exactly why Bryson is starting currently. Huddlestone is the quarterback, picking passes and screening the defence while Mount is the playmaker linking midfield to attack; Bryson's purpose is to do all the running to link Hudds and Mount together. Butterfield categorically cannot do this and Mount is a better playmaker so still struggling to see how he'd improve the current team/system

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On 10/12/2018 at 12:12, JoeDerby said:

I think I'm the only football fan in the world that rates Butterfield and probably the Huddersfield fans too.

I wish he could be given a chance under Lamps, he looked a class player when he first arrived, obviously took a big knock in confidence from our own fans and Wednesday fans but he has been played out of position at both clubs.

He was much better for us in a midfield 3 when he had the freedom in the final third to go and play. he's struggled in more defensive roles. He doesn't have the energy/legs Lampard demands from the two more attacking midfield players but he can play the killer pass that can open teams up. He's technically good. I think he has more to offer than Bryson now. Personal opinion, of course. 

He doesn't deserve the stick he's received at all. I'm actually quite embarrassed by it all. Hope he proves the haters wrong.

Queue the comment saying 'Butterfield, is that you?' 🙄

I actually completely agree with every part of it Jacob.

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33 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

That's where I disagree because he's nowhere near as mobile and my point was that is exactly why Bryson is starting currently. Huddlestone is the quarterback, picking passes and screening the defence while Mount is the playmaker linking midfield to attack; Bryson's purpose is to do all the running to link Hudds and Mount together. Butterfield categorically cannot do this and Mount is a better playmaker so still struggling to see how he'd improve the current team/system

I just think against teams that we can't break down, technical ability is worth much more than whatever legs Bryson has left, which is about 70% of the Bryson from 13/14 season. 

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26 minutes ago, JoeDerby said:

I just think against teams that we can't break down, technical ability is worth much more than whatever legs Bryson has left, which is about 70% of the Bryson from 13/14 season

I agree that Bryson isn't as good as he was and I also think there's arguably a better option for this system, I'm just not sure it's Butterfield. Funnily enough I think Evans might make that spot his own as he seems to balance defensive cover with a good eye for a pass which may compliment both Mount and Hudds far better. Alternatively, Ethan Ampadu (if we get him) would definitely be able to do a job there.

Just seems to me that if Huddlestone is playing, the one trait that is absolutely necessary in whoever is alongside him is mobility; Mount is often much further forward and Huddlestone distinctly lacks pace so a runner is required to provide support.

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21 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

I agree that Bryson isn't as good as he was and I also think there's arguably a better option for this system, I'm just not sure it's Butterfield. Funnily enough I think Evans might make that spot his own as he seems to balance defensive cover with a good eye for a pass which may compliment both Mount and Hudds far better. Alternatively, Ethan Ampadu (if we get him) would definitely be able to do a job there.

I agree with your analysis here. but I'd go further. I think Evans was bought specifically as understudy / backup for Bryson.

Butterfield, despite his technical ability, is too slow and ponderous for Lampard's Rams.

Edited by therealhantsram

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5 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

I agree with your analysis here. but I'd go further. I think Evans was bought specifically as understudy / backup for Bryson.

Butterfield, despite his technical ability, is too slow and ponderous for Lampard's Rams.

Bang on. He can’t play 4-3-3 (and don’t say he got 8 goals in the clement/wassall season), he’s never had the engine, he can’t tackle, takes too many touches doesn’t look up enough. Him and Johnson coming into the midfield was a big reason why Chris Martin started to become isolated up front. 

He has good technique undoubtedly, quick feet and skilful but he was the wrong fit for the Derby and certainly couldn’t do anything in this team now. He’s never justified the £4m price tag, don’t blame him - I’m sure a team playing him in the right position in the right system (not sure what that is) could get a decent player on their hands as Huddersfield had.

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12 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Bang on. He can’t play 4-3-3 (and don’t say he got 8 goals in the clement/wassall season), he’s never had the engine, he can’t tackle, takes too many touches doesn’t look up enough. Him and Johnson coming into the midfield was a big reason why Chris Martin started to become isolated up front. 

He has good technique undoubtedly, quick feet and skilful but he was the wrong fit for the Derby and certainly couldn’t do anything in this team now. He’s never justified the £4m price tag, don’t blame him - I’m sure a team playing him in the right position in the right system (not sure what that is) could get a decent player on their hands as Huddersfield had.

He can absolutely play 4-3-3. Please give your reasons why? You don't need a engine to play in a 3 man midfield, Will Hughes is the perfect example of this. The Butterfield we signed was fast thinking, linked play together nicely, played neat passes in behind that open teams up and had an eye for goal.

 

And I believe Evans is a holding midfielder (can also play as a CB) and was purchased to play in the role where Huddlestone is playing. He's never been an attacking player?

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2 hours ago, JoeDerby said:

He can absolutely play 4-3-3. 

That is true - There are many and varied ways of playing 4-3-3 and I have no doubt a player with Butterfield's ability can play it

14 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Him and Johnson coming into the midfield was a big reason why Chris Martin started to become isolated up front.

But that is also true

When Bryson and Hendrick played with Martin he had constant support from the midfield - Both Johnson and Butterfield play deeper and didn't give Martin the same support - Bryson used to overlap all the time which is when he got all those goals (admittedly the following season McClaren had him sitting deeper because we didn't have a proper DM which hampered his play quite a bit)

Butterfield is obviously a talented player - But he's been screwed by the merry-go-round of managers we've had - Especially since 3 of them have been fairly anti-football - He was never going to fit into Rowett's "slogger or clogger" mould and Lampard obviously wants to carve his own squad relatively from scratch

I suspect he'll give us a good run for our money when we play against him later in the season

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7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

That is true - There are many and varied ways of playing 4-3-3 and I have no doubt a player with Butterfield's ability can play it

But that is also true

When Bryson and Hendrick played with Martin he had constant support from the midfield - Both Johnson and Butterfield play deeper and didn't give Martin the same support - Bryson used to overlap all the time which is when he got all those goals (admittedly the following season McClaren had him sitting deeper because we didn't have a proper DM which hampered his play quite a bit)

Butterfield is obviously a talented player - But he's been screwed by the merry-go-round of managers we've had - Especially since 3 of them have been fairly anti-football - He was never going to fit into Rowett's "slogger or clogger" mould and Lampard obviously wants to carve his own squad relatively from scratch

I suspect he'll give us a good run for our money when we play against him later in the season

But Martin isn't here anymore? Marriott is quite the opposite of Martin and will make clever little runs in behind the back line where as Martin looked to play with his back to call and bring other players in to play, which is where Bryson got all of his success under McClaren and is probably why he isn't as effective now.

This is where my point of having a player with better technical ability is coming in, somebody who can make the passes further up field to slide the ball in behind the defence? Something I don't think Bryson has the ability to do.

 

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