Norman Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Papahet said: How? Lyons and Short barely get any credit for the u23s. Its always Darren piggin fake tan Wassall. Hes been here what? A decade. And weve produced half a dozen players tops under him. Piss poor The Ipswich team selection and the Hull 1st leg are evidence hes out his depth. Rotherham too You say not enough players are coming through and saying Wassall is lucky to have a job. But the blokes he gave a job to (which his job), who you think should get the praise, haven't done a very good job either, then? Contradictory. We have been category 1 for how long? With significant investment in the academy for how long? It was only 10 years a go Billy Davies scrapped it all. The three games you mention - he was perhaps out of his depth due to the fact he's an academy manager, maybe????? But how that proves he can't run an academy doesn't add up. The question was - why is he lucky to have a job? Answer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, wixman1884 said: Still holding on for a "just kidding" announcement from Rowett? No mate. Will compare Stoke and Derby next season though. Hoooooof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookiebear1 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I've read all the comments on how exciting it all is and how Lampard cant be any worse than what we have already had but I just can't see how this is going to be good for Derby after all the excitement has died down. It just feels a bit Hollywood fake excitement, you know when you get excited about the new Die Hard 8 film and you cant wait then you watch it but when you do you realize that John Mclane looks like he's 70 now and you cant really feel it when a 70yr old man jumps onto a flying jet. That "you know you're going to be let down" kind of excitement. Its good 70% of people are happy with it but I'm not one of um. Maybe I'm getting old ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, David said: Which is exactly what you want when appointing a manager is it not? The fans being optimistic rather than pessimistic which hasn't been the case for a while now sadly. Would the experienced Mick McCarthy see the same levels of optimism or would we be dragging our heels into the new season fearing the worse? If one of the checkboxes for the club was to bring excitement back to the club with the next appointment, they can tick that one off as complete. ✔️ A mood of optimism is great around a club no doubt. All the more welcome after Rowett's reign in my opinion. My point is not whether optimism is good or bad. My point is whether such optimism is justified or not. Why are fans optimistic about Lampard,? because he was an excellent footballer? Which really has very little bearing on his qualities as a manager. Optimism bring with it expectation, which will just increase the pressure on a novice manager. I'd rather we had optimism based on a track record of successful management (playing attacking entertaining football). If Mel was comparing McCarthy vs Lampard, what he should be asking himself is which one of those two is more likely to be successful, not who will excite the fans more in the short-term (of those two I'd hope he would choose Lampard actually). Lampard's appointment is a short in the dark for me and probably not the wisest choice that could have been made, but hey.....there is still reason to be cheerful about it. It might work ! We have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, David said: If one of the checkboxes for the club was to bring excitement back to the club with the next appointment, they can tick that one off as complete. ✔️ And the club needs this more than we realise. In retrospect I'm amazed we were accepting what our club was becoming. We were a team that made no attempt to beat or even draw against Wolves, a team that had no place for players like Hughes, Ince, Palmer or even Vydra! There was even someone* on this very board calling for the next manager to be similar to Rowett to avoid too much disruption!!! OMFG what's happened to us??? Could you blame Carson, Vydra etc. for leaving if we go down that route? With Lampard and his team coming in - these players will be much more difficult for Gary to pinch. Derby will be a club going places - exciting places! *Hope you banned whoever that was by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, Super Johnny Russell said: Long term, of course. But right now, this is definitely a great thing for Derby. Even if it only last until September/October. It will create a buzz around the place, he'll attract so much more to the club than a Dean Smith or Wassall. How can that not be good?. You're not insecure if you're prepared to take a gamble and be the first to try something others wouldn't dare. That's brave. Lampard will have more drive to succeed than anyone else on the list. He wants the Chelsea job one day, so he needs to be successful. Personally I cannot wait. I think we'll see mistakes, we'll lose games, we'll win some games, but more than anything we will see something different. Whatever the long term outcome, I genuinely believe that we are doing what's right and good for Derby NOW if he's appointed. Hmmmm, I think you have a better chance of doing what's right for the club if you think long-term, rather than short-term. 'Buzz' wears off quickly, I'm not really interested in that. He might have a better chance of attracting a higher calibre of player to the club, because of his profile in the game, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG83 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Highgate said: Hmmmm, I think you have a better chance of doing what's right for the club if you think long-term, rather than short-term. 'Buzz' wears off quickly, I'm not really interested in that. He might have a better chance of attracting a higher calibre of player to the club, because of his profile in the game, maybe. Well as you can't guarantee success either way..... Mel, of course, must believe that his choice is a long term good fit, but still we'll have either: 1. An exciting summer and a good or bad season. or 2. A boring summer and a good or bad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Highgate said: A mood of optimism is great around a club no doubt. All the more welcome after Rowett's reign in my opinion. My point is not whether optimism is good or bad. My point is whether such optimism is justified or not. Why are fans optimistic about Lampard,? because he was an excellent footballer? Which really has very little bearing on his qualities as a manager. Optimism bring with it expectation, which will just increase the pressure on a novice manager. I'd rather we had optimism based on a track record of successful management (playing attacking entertaining football). If Mel was comparing McCarthy vs Lampard, what he should be asking himself is which one of those two is more likely to be successful, not who will excite the fans more in the short-term (of those two I'd hope he would choose Lampard actually). Lampard's appointment is a short in the dark for me and probably not the wisest choice that could have been made, but hey.....there is still reason to be cheerful about it. It might work ! We have to wait and see. Didn't we hire Pearson because of his experience? He got out of the Championship with Leicester and kept them up. Look how that turned out ? Initially I wasn't overly impressed with the thought of Lampard but given that next season might be one of tightening our belts hiring an established name, such as those that are available atm (McCarthy, Allardyce, Moyes, etc) wouldn't fill the average fan with optimism, wouldn't sell as many season tickets and after a few bad results would result in much negativity. Other managers in contention such as Cook or Warburton would get longer imo, if fans buy into the fact that belt tightening might be the order of the day for a season or two, but imo they would all be uninspiring choices. Lampard on the other hand brings us a bit of x-factor, we'll get a bit of publicity and big crowds - at least for the first few matches and none of us really know how its gonna work out. He might have lots of connections, get us a few great loan players and hit the ground running. He might not. But if he is hoping to forge a managerial career for himself then at the very minimum he's going to be extremely motivated to at least try and do well. So yeah, I've come around to the idea of Lampard and a step into the unknown. Nothing else has worked recently so why the hell not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, maxjam said: So yeah, I've come around to the idea of Lampard and a step into the unknown. Nothing else has worked recently so why the hell not. Haha - it's the state of the backlash when it doesn't succeed that worries me - and where that leaves us going forward I know that's a negative way of looking at it, but you have to admit the chances of this working are slim Chances of it being interesting - high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector was the best Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Nookiebear1 said: ??I've read all the comments on how exciting it all is and how Lampard cant be any worse than what we have already had but I just can't see how this is going to be good for Derby after all the excitement has died down. It just feels a bit Hollywood fake excitement, you know when you get excited about the new Die Hard 8 film and you cant wait then you watch it but when you do you realize that John Mclane looks like he's 70 now and you cant really feel it when a 70yr old man jumps onto a flying jet. That "you know you're going to be let down" kind of excitement. Its good 70% of people are happy with it but I'm not one of um. Maybe I'm getting old ? I am getting very old, will I ever see them back in the big time ??????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Parsnip said: And the club needs this more than we realise. In retrospect I'm amazed we were accepting what our club was becoming. We were a team that made no attempt to beat or even draw against Wolves, a team that had no place for players like Hughes, Ince, Palmer or even Vydra! There was even someone* on this very board calling for the next manager to be similar to Rowett to avoid too much disruption!!! OMFG what's happened to us??? Could you blame Carson, Vydra etc. for leaving if we go down that route? With Lampard and his team coming in - these players will be much more difficult for Gary to pinch. Derby will be a club going places - exciting places! *Hope you banned whoever that was by the way. I'm presuming you know exactly who said that (similar to rowett etc)... I can't believe he meant it..... surely being mischievous d***d? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 44 minutes ago, Highgate said: A mood of optimism is great around a club no doubt. All the more welcome after Rowett's reign in my opinion. My point is not whether optimism is good or bad. My point is whether such optimism is justified or not. Why are fans optimistic about Lampard,? because he was an excellent footballer? Which really has very little bearing on his qualities as a manager. Optimism bring with it expectation, which will just increase the pressure on a novice manager. I'd rather we had optimism based on a track record of successful management (playing attacking entertaining football). If Mel was comparing McCarthy vs Lampard, what he should be asking himself is which one of those two is more likely to be successful, not who will excite the fans more in the short-term (of those two I'd hope he would choose Lampard actually). Lampard's appointment is a short in the dark for me and probably not the wisest choice that could have been made, but hey.....there is still reason to be cheerful about it. It might work ! We have to wait and see. Don't believe optimism can ever be a bad thing as it brings support, first job or twenty first, it's a great starting point to have the fans behind you from day 1 which hasn't always been the case. I've not seen any talk of raised expectations on this forum at least or twitter, no talk of promotion or winning the league. I think we are all now aware of the financial situation thanks to the Daily Mail for the gentle reminder, even if question marks are over the accuracy of the article, we have overspent in the past and that must come down. Fact. It's not a secret or breaking news, and Lampard's possible appointment would hopefully enable us to tap into his little black book of contacts, Mourinho, Abramovich... Wolves have just enjoyed a season thanks to the phonebook of a certain Mr Mendes, Lampard's name may help put us right at the top of the list of their best youngsters looking for a season out on loan. 2/3 of those could save us a shed load of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteroseram Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Tbf if we’re going to take the plung on a manager with no experience it may as well be the summer we aren’t planning on spending so much! Than at least we won’t have thrown £10million odd behind him if it doesn’t work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Super Johnny Russell said: Well as you can't guarantee success either way..... Mel, of course, must believe that his choice is a long term good fit, but still we'll have either: 1. An exciting summer and a good or bad season. or 2. A boring summer and a good or bad season. Of course success isn't guaranteed. We know that. It's about trying to maximize the possibility of success. A good way to try and do that is to go for someone who has proven they can be successful as a manager. Rather than go for someone we know absolutely nothing about in a managerial capacity. That's just heading into random chance territory. Still better than Rowett though, who has a proven track record of boring fans to tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, maxjam said: Didn't we hire Pearson because of his experience? He got out of the Championship with Leicester and kept them up. Look how that turned out ? Initially I wasn't overly impressed with the thought of Lampard but given that next season might be one of tightening our belts hiring an established name, such as those that are available atm (McCarthy, Allardyce, Moyes, etc) wouldn't fill the average fan with optimism, wouldn't sell as many season tickets and after a few bad results would result in much negativity. Other managers in contention such as Cook or Warburton would get longer imo, if fans buy into the fact that belt tightening might be the order of the day for a season or two, but imo they would all be uninspiring choices. Lampard on the other hand brings us a bit of x-factor, we'll get a bit of publicity and big crowds - at least for the first few matches and none of us really know how its gonna work out. He might have lots of connections, get us a few great loan players and hit the ground running. He might not. But if he is hoping to forge a managerial career for himself then at the very minimum he's going to be extremely motivated to at least try and do well. So yeah, I've come around to the idea of Lampard and a step into the unknown. Nothing else has worked recently so why the hell not. I've no interest in 'x-factor' really. Except that it may, possibly, attract better loanees or whatever. That is worth considering. The Pearson appointment, didn't work because Mel appointed a manager completely unsuited to the players at the club in my opinion. That was largely down to Mel. I think as a general principle, when filling any job position. If a person has a history of success in that role that is surely seen a a positive. If they are a total novice, that generally counts against them. Why is it any different for football managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, Hector was the best said: I am getting very old, will I ever see them back in the big time ??????????????? Dunno, but I bet Mel feels the same! One thing's for sure, it's better we give it a go (goes) in an interesting/exciting way than the way it was with Rowett and Pearson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, StivePesley said: Haha - it's the state of the backlash when it doesn't succeed that worries me - and where that leaves us going forward I know that's a negative way of looking at it, but you have to admit the chances of this working are slim Chances of it being interesting - high I'll agree that the chances of it working are slim (and if he does well he'll probably be gone at Christmas anyway) but only marginally slimmer than some of the other choices. Mel has already said there will be no significant investment next season so whoever comes in has got to get the absolute best out of whats already here to make the top six again. Unless we pull a few financial rabbits out of the hat we're looking at mid table at best imo. The older generation of managers mentioned don't thrill me and some of the younger ones would be under just as much pressure as Lampard so why not go for the unproven? He was one of the best English midfielders of his generation, played with a lot of great players and was managed by several great managers, as a smart guy you would hope that it all fed into his footballing education. I would also hope that he still has contacts at several top clubs enabling us some good loan players. I wasn't initially impressed myself but the more I think about it the more I'm happy to take the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Parsnip said: And the club needs this more than we realise. In retrospect I'm amazed we were accepting what our club was becoming. We were a team that made no attempt to beat or even draw against Wolves, a team that had no place for players like Hughes, Ince, Palmer or even Vydra! There was even someone* on this very board calling for the next manager to be similar to Rowett to avoid too much disruption!!! OMFG what's happened to us??? Could you blame Carson, Vydra etc. for leaving if we go down that route? With Lampard and his team coming in - these players will be much more difficult for Gary to pinch. Derby will be a club going places - exciting places! *Hope you banned whoever that was by the way. That was me, you won't get rid of me that easily! Goes against everything I initially wanted and thought would be the best way to go forward, I was then the first to vote Lampard in the poll, can a man not change his mind or are you being sexist here as that's a warning point right there! I still stand by some of what I said in the post, bringing in a manager that would give Craig Ramage's tongue a headache from Eastern Europe who has never even heard of Derby let alone Jacob Butterfield would be a bad thing. And don't mistake my support for Lampard being one of let's throw any old ex pro in with no experience, I even challenged Bris's Seedorf suggestion on Twitter. Lampard knows the game over here, a hugely respected player for what he has achieved and will bring with him a phonebook that many managers could only dream of. That phonebook could be key to how successful he is breaking into management. Not only that, having Harry Redknapp sat at the other side of the family table over a stuffed chicken on a Sunday, a wealth of knowledge he can tap into not just tactics, players, but management, the day to day of running a club. Not always what you know, it's who you know. If he uses his who he knows well, he will quickly learn to know through experience, know what I mean Harry? [Insert Frank Bruno laugh] We have no idea how he will approach the game style wise, having played under Mourinho and listening to him talk about his Man Utd "boring" tag, may not be a million miles away from Rowett, but let off the leash a bit more with more driving counter attacks though midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, David said: Don't believe optimism can ever be a bad thing as it brings support, first job or twenty first, it's a great starting point to have the fans behind you from day 1 which hasn't always been the case. I've not seen any talk of raised expectations on this forum at least or twitter, no talk of promotion or winning the league. I think we are all now aware of the financial situation thanks to the Daily Mail for the gentle reminder, even if question marks are over the accuracy of the article, we have overspent in the past and that must come down. Fact. It's not a secret or breaking news, and Lampard's possible appointment would hopefully enable us to tap into his little black book of contacts, Mourinho, Abramovich... Wolves have just enjoyed a season thanks to the phonebook of a certain Mr Mendes, Lampard's name may help put us right at the top of the list of their best youngsters looking for a season out on loan. 2/3 of those could save us a shed load of money. Surely raised expectations is an inevitable corollary of heightened optimism. That's not to say the fans will be totally unrealistic, we realise that next season should be a tough one, all things considered. The fact that Lampard may be able to attract better loans is a good one, let's hope it turns out to be the case. I'm not trying to be negative about Lampard at all. I like the guy, he has always come across as decent and reasonably intelligent. But i think it's really is a step into the unknown and we should be more circumspect about the possibility of it turning out as we would hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Tenuous rumour time: a friend who has a friend who works at JOE messaged me saying Derby have contacted a load of media saying "we have a major announcement to make"! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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