The Reality

[cannable]

54 minutes ago, Pearson said:

Fair point. But again my point is he cant deliver against our illustrious opponents which is where we need to be if we are to progress.Beating the inferior teams means nothing I'm afraid.

Unless solely beating them puts you ahead of everyone else… 

Of Watford's 14 games against the rest of the top 8 in 14/15 they won just three. 14 points from a total of 42 available. 

They reached a cup semi-final and finished 13th in the Premier League with seven of their most regular XI making the step up. 

[Duracell]

The OP claiming that this is "the reality" reminded me of this:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/people-who-tell-it-like-it-is-actually-telling-it-like-it-isnt-20160506108622

 

[Grimbeard]

2 hours ago, Pearson said:

Quote

1. Wed played 14 games under Pearson during which time he gave every player a fair chance.

Quote

2. To call this a relegation battle is unfair.

Quote

3. Were not much further forward now considering MaClaren has had the opportunity to bring his own players in. The ones he has have largely failed.

 

1. Except our leading goal scorer and focal point for the previous few seasons. For reasons few can comprehend, Pearson allowed him to go on loan to a Championship rival.

2. We were 3rd bottom. It was, admittedly, still fairly early in the season, but there was little sign that any improvement was just around the corner, so the possibility of a relegation battle was  very real.

3. We now stand in 8th position, 3 points away from a play off place and playing in a much more attractive manner. Just my opinion, but I'd say that is quite a bit further forward.

Regarding recruitment, there are three points that I'd make.

Firstly, unless there is an obvious opportunity to improve the team, buying in the January feeding frenzy is rarely a good idea.

Secondly, even if S.M. had wanted to buy, he would have been somewhat hamstrung in the market due to the vast sums squandered by Pearson.

Finally, The players that arrived in January, We've hardly seen them yet, how can you say they  have failed?

 

[SIWY]

8 hours ago, Pearson said:

Wed played 14 games under Pearson during which time he gave every player a fair chance. To call this a relegation battle is unfair. Were not much further forward now considering MaClaren has had the opportunity to bring his own players in. The ones he has have largely failed.

Considering we had 6 points from 9 league games and were sitting in 22nd place when Pearson was sacked, I'd say we were in for a relegation battle. 

Under Pearson we lost to Ipswich at home, under McClaren we beat them 3-0 away. Just shows the turn around.

[SIWY]

7 hours ago, Pearson said:

Fair point. But again my point is he cant deliver against our illustrious opponents which is where we need to be if we are to progress.Beating the inferior teams means nothing I'm afraid.

There are potentially 84 points to be won by beating teams outside the top 10 home and away so it doesn't mean nothing. 

Under Nigel Pearson we picked up 5 points from 5 games against sides outside the current top 10, beating Preston, drawing to Villa and Bristol and losing to Blackburn, Burton and Ipswich. Our league position would be looking quite a bit better had we picked up the points we should have against these teams.

Under McClaren we have played 20 overall and picked up 40 points. Under Pearson we played 9 games and picked up 6 points. That's 2 points per game against 0.67 points per game. We also managed to average 2 points per game in Powell's 2 games in charge, and if we'd averaged 2 points per game all season like our form under McClaren and Powell suggests we're capable of we'd be sat in 3rd on 58 points.

I think I understand the point you're trying to make that we need to be beating top 10 sides consistently to show real progress and be considered promotion candidates, but we aren't even doing that badly against the top 10 sides!

[Seth's left foot]

Booooooooo.

[toddy]

For me Mac and us are a good fit, but some of the performances have not really improved in certain games under Mac.

Norwich/Leeds/ Toons first 60 mins spring to mind as truly awful.

I still think we are a team going through a development period of evolvement and should be able to compete for autos next season once we get another midfield play maker in and those that are current out, back in.

[Carnero]

9 games under Pearson = 6 points

20 games since Pearson = 40 points

 

[RamNut]

We were missing hughes, christie, forsyth and Thorne through injury, and martin through stupidity, so half the team v newcastle were arguably reserves signed by others. On the other hand we are a bit too open, and a bit prone to stand off which invites trouble.

Schteve missed the summer transfer window, and its hard to think of anyone we missed in January who could have made much difference. There simply hasn't been the opportunity yet to overhaul any inherited recruitment errors and the duffers we have signed are going to be hard to shift. Finally we have a peculiar recruitment set up which means the manager / coach is not wholly responsible for who comes in.

The best he can do is to put round pegs in round holes and play to a system that suits. 

Some managers can't even manage to do that, but so far he's doing fine.

 

 

[cosmic]

19 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

9 games under Pearson = 6 points

20 games since Pearson = 40 points

 

Hats off to Pearson for laying down all that ground work before he left, resulting in that great return to form. 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

We were missing hughes, christie, forsyth and Thorne through injury, and martin through stupidity, so half the team v newcastle were arguably reserves signed by others. On the other hand we are a bit too open, and a bit prone to stand off which invites trouble.

Schteve missed the summer transfer window, and its hard to think of anyone we missed in January who could have made much difference. There simply hasn't been the opportunity yet to overhaul any inherited recruitment errors and the duffers we have signed are going to be hard to shift. Finally we have a peculiar recruitment set up which means the manager / coach is not wholly responsible for who comes in.

The best he can do is to put round pegs in round holes and play to a system that suits. 

Some managers can't even manage to do that, but so far he's doing fine.

+1

But it's a bit more than fine isn't it. He's got our best players playing well and the also-rans to be part of the team. We're competing again and the fans are mostly happy, as is the owner I imagine. What else could he do in a few months, ffs. Why try and sow seeds of dissention, just to show you can use a semi-colon.

Happy Derby fan here, looking forward to the coming games and next season. #COYR

[SecretDave]

12 hours ago, Pearson said:

Yesterday’s game completed 20 games under McClaren’s current tenure and is sufficient time to form a critical critique of where we are, and perhaps more importantly, where we are going.

During this period we have played 13 teams in the current top 10 and won only 4 games. We have been outplayed and embarrassed in the majority of these and only good luck coming to our aid in numerous cases. It is, and always will be, a measuring stick in how you perform against superior opposition if you are to demonstrate genuine progression. To that end we are not progressing.

During this and the previous tenure, McClaren has signed 15 and loaned 14 players. Yesterdays starting 11 included 8 Clement, 3 Clough and 1 McLaren signing. Think about that, and after you have, you should come to the conclusion that we have a coach who is incapable of spotting players with any class or potential. Worrying times.

As things stand we are 9pts adrift of Leeds who are 5th and ground which I feel we are not capable of making up. If Shef Wed or Norwich kick on I fear we will not even make the play-offs, and this for me alone, is justification enough to sack McClaren.

The board will stick with him until 2018, and be assured we will still be in the Championship; a new manager will be installed requiring time, which means for us long suffering fans, no Premiership football until 2020 if we are lucky!

Those stats are totally incorrect. Since McClaren took over, we've played against other top 10 teams 9 times. Of those, we have won 4, drawn 1 and lost 4. So, not all that bad really. Of the top 10 teams we've played at home, we've won every match.

Is it not more of the fault of Nigel Pearson that we're 8 points adrift of Leeds? He left us with only 6 points from 9 matches, so it was a mountain to climb for any incoming manager. I think it's a miracle we're even in a battle for the play offs now to be honest, I was prepared for a battle against relegation after our defeat to Blackburn under Nigel Pearson.

[DRBee]

12 hours ago, Pearson said:

Yesterday’s game completed 20 games under McClaren’s current tenure and is sufficient time to form a critical critique of where we are, and perhaps more importantly, where we are going.

During this period we have played 13 teams in the current top 10 and won only 4 games. We have been outplayed and embarrassed in the majority of these and only good luck coming to our aid in numerous cases. It is, and always will be, a measuring stick in how you perform against superior opposition if you are to demonstrate genuine progression. To that end we are not progressing.

During this and the previous tenure, McClaren has signed 15 and loaned 14 players. Yesterdays starting 11 included 8 Clement, 3 Clough and 1 McLaren signing. Think about that, and after you have, you should come to the conclusion that we have a coach who is incapable of spotting players with any class or potential. Worrying times.

As things stand we are 9pts adrift of Leeds who are 5th and ground which I feel we are not capable of making up. If Shef Wed or Norwich kick on I fear we will not even make the play-offs, and this for me alone, is justification enough to sack McClaren.

The board will stick with him until 2018, and be assured we will still be in the Championship; a new manager will be installed requiring time, which means for us long suffering fans, no Premiership football until 2020 if we are lucky!

Some search for facts to support their argument , some just make facts up .

 

Who was the manager ho brought Ince and Bence to the club?   ( 1+1=2 ,,, 2>1 )

How can the 'top' 10  include us and 13 other teams?

 

I could go on .........

[MackworthRamIsGod]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

He is exactly that, fitting in to the bringing young players through and bringing on bought players coaching mold.

I like Mac and I am happy to see him back, but how can we say a man who jumped ship at the sign of a better offer is a long term solution for Derby?

Also, in the years he has been manager of Derby, how many youth players has he promoted to the first team? If anything I would argue that Mac hinders the progress of the youngsters as he dares not risk them in the quest for promotion. Calero was an example of this, he picked him to play in the cup, a game he scored the winner in, he never played again.

Vernam has just made a cup appearance and was farmed out on loan. Even Hanson, our next solid bit of talent after Will Hughes is now playing for another Championship team.

Mac is here to get us promoted, nothing more (in my opinion) 

 

[robglosta]

10 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Posts like this show that McClaren is a victim of his own success.

Given where we were under Pearson, surely this season is nothing more than a free hit?

We always knew that reaching the play offs would be a tall order because we had effectively given everyone a ten game head start. And historically we have never prospered against the teams around us, so results against Newcastle, Norwich and Leeds were none too surprising.

The time to judge him is next season when he is able to shape the squad how he wants and he has a full pre-season to get the players playing how he wants.

The squad is so disjointed at this current time, it's a minor miracle that play-offs is still even in the discussion.

While I agree that it is hard to see us getting out of the division any time soon and I have reservations over whether McClaren is the right man to do it, it'd be absurd and beyond premature to sack McClaren this season.

Look at the job Bruce is doing at Villa and it makes McClaren look otherworldly.

Absolutely spot on, it's a free spin given the state of the club when he came in.  If the OP is serious then my, my you must never enjoy supporting Derby. 

[barnsley ram]

12 hours ago, Pearson said:

Yesterday’s game completed 20 games under McClaren’s current tenure and is sufficient time to form a critical critique of where we are, and perhaps more importantly, where we are going.

During this period we have played 13 teams in the current top 10 and won only 4 games. We have been outplayed and embarrassed in the majority of these and only good luck coming to our aid in numerous cases. It is, and always will be, a measuring stick in how you perform against superior opposition if you are to demonstrate genuine progression. To that end we are not progressing.

During this and the previous tenure, McClaren has signed 15 and loaned 14 players. Yesterdays starting 11 included 8 Clement, 3 Clough and 1 McLaren signing. Think about that, and after you have, you should come to the conclusion that we have a coach who is incapable of spotting players with any class or potential. Worrying times.

As things stand we are 9pts adrift of Leeds who are 5th and ground which I feel we are not capable of making up. If Shef Wed or Norwich kick on I fear we will not even make the play-offs, and this for me alone, is justification enough to sack McClaren.

The board will stick with him until 2018, and be assured we will still be in the Championship; a new manager will be installed requiring time, which means for us long suffering fans, no Premiership football until 2020 if we are lucky!

proud of the team that played at newcastle very unlucky to lose this game unlucky to go down to a freak goal like that but more than matched a team who are full of premiership players think we are good enough to get promotoin with this team we have agood blance about us and agood bench to be able to change things when needed

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I like Mac and I am happy to see him back, but how can we say a man who jumped ship at the sign of a better offer is a long term solution for Derby?

Also, in the years he has been manager of Derby, how many youth players has he promoted to the first team? If anything I would argue that Mac hinders the progress of the youngsters as he dares not risk them in the quest for promotion.

Mac isn't the first manager to move from club to another and don't use alternate facts - he was sacked.

In hindsight who are these youngsters that he's missed out on playing ie where are they now? I think the emphasis might have changed for Mac with Mel in charge, we'll see. The bottom line is, if they're good enough and they fit the team they'll play. Sending more of the U23s out on loan to experience 'proper' football is a good first step.

[thederbyram]

1 hour ago, Saul Pimpson said:

9 games under Pearson = 6 points

20 games since Pearson = 40 points

 

I've just realised..

 

If Pearson would have had an extra 11 games, it would have been literally impossible for him to match our record since, even if we'd have won every single one.

 

Bloody hell that's impressive.

[DerbyMark]

11 hours ago, Pearson said:

Oh the tedium of this!!

 

For what’s its worth I selected the Pearson pseudonym after our Wembley play-off victory over West Brom. I would have thought a quick history check would have confirmed that.

Well forgive me for drawing that comparison after what was basically an hatchet job on McLaren... you want to sack him already?

I think you'll find it was the decisions made by your namesake (selling Hendrick, loaning Martin out to Fulham) plus the poor start made under his disastrous tenure that are the main reasons why we're struggling to establish ourselves in the top 6.

Then there's the long term injuries of key players like Thorne and Forsyth..plus the poor recruitment under both Pearson and Clement while team's around us have strengthened...none of this is McLaren's fault.

Under the circumstances he's done mighty well to get us back even into contention for play off's.

 

 

[Sparkle]

We have been playing a massive catch up operation- pre season seemed rubbish and looked rubbish transferred that into the season.

players sent packing on loan and transferred without getting the quality replacements we needed and money excessively wasted, two years of you will not pass forwards into where the opposition are, to be accompanied by our never ending injury concerns,

i think we are doing well, oh and the best defensive record in the championship currently! 

Next season I expect - a proper pre season, physically fit players, the return of Thorne, Forsyth and Martin and one central attacking midfielder and possibly another wide man and a right wing back.

oh and a known way of playing from day one, with options to mix it up.

i am looking forward to next season very much (not discounting a stab at it this season mind)