Derby County v Hull City

[ronnieronalde]

35 minutes ago, McLovin said:

You heard about pre season??? He would have seen them in training as well

It doesn't take a football genius to like Will and Bryson OR to see how much commitment and desire they both have.

I've not coached at either Real, Chelsea or PSG and I saw that long before Clement rocked into town.

[RadioactiveWaste]

10 minutes ago, McLovin said:

You heard about pre season??? He would have seen them in training as well

I remember a comment from Clement after the league cup match that he'd made his mind up on a couple of players which I think makes sense in this context.

[Sexydadbod]

13 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I blamed Clement when he was still here. I didn't wait for it to become obvious he didn't ever have the squad on side.

He's not a manager. He might be very good at putting cones out.

Today was a shambles and Wass has to take responsibility for that,

Neither today nor Wassall cost Derby the chance of the auto's.  the auto's were long since gone 

Clement did that all on his own. Spent 27m quid and still couldn't get the side playing.

Had two really poor spells either side of a purple patch. With the squad at his disposal, not good enough. Not sure Mel helped his cause any but by the time he was on his way out, he looked and sounded a broken man. He was never going to turn it around.

Spending money doesn't guarantee success. Not Clement's fault that we have got some mercenaries here. There is only so much motivation you can install in players. Lets not kid ourselves a lot of our latest signings came here to get a nice pay day.Look at Man utd, they have spent around half a billion since Ferguson left but still nowhere near that quality. Again Clement didn't get sacked for the results, he got sacked due to Mel's obsession with playing "the Derby way."  I didn't enjoy Clement's style but I'm convinced that we would have got promoted under him within 2 years like Boro did with Karanka. Only difference is that Steve Gibson understood that it takes time to get success so stuck by Karanka unlike us with Clement

[PistoldPete2]

20 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I blamed Clement when he was still here. I didn't wait for it to become obvious he didn't ever have the squad on side.

He's not a manager. He might be very good at putting cones out.

Today was a shambles and Wass has to take responsibility for that,

Neither today nor Wassall cost Derby the chance of the auto's.  the auto's were long since gone 

Clement did that all on his own. Spent 27m quid and still couldn't get the side playing.

Had two really poor spells either side of a purple patch. With the squad at his disposal, not good enough. Not sure Mel helped his cause any but by the time he was on his way out, he looked and sounded a broken man. He was never going to turn it around.

To be fair to clement, and to Wassall, the £27 million spent on new players was not their spending. It was Mel Morris money spent on players recommended by a recuitment team, who were not hired by either clement or  Wassall.

 

i think we have had a recruitment problem since Clough left... Mcclarens permanent signings were no good apart from thorne , and then we've hired players who haven't been good value for money. Chris Evans got the sack, but the new recruitment team are no better. 

[Sexydadbod]

6 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

It doesn't take a football genius to like Will and Bryson OR to see how much commitment and desire they both have.

I've not coached at either Real, Chelsea or PSG and I saw that long before Clement rocked into town.

I'm not saying that .I'm saying he liked them because they wanted to improve unlike some of our other players. He liked them because they had desire like the real madrid players. Clement wasn't expecting the rest of the team to perform like Real Madrid, but at least show a willingness to improve like Will and Craig.

[ronnieronalde]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said:

To be fair to clement, and to Wassall, the £27 million spent on new players was not their spending. It was Mel Morris money spent on players recommended by a recuitment team, who were not hired by either clement or  Wassall.

 

i think we have had a recruitment problem since Clough left... Mcclarens permanent signings were no good apart from thorne , and then we've hired players who haven't been good value for money. Chris Evans got the sack, but the new recruitment team are no better. 

I'm still wondering and waiting to see who takes responsibility for that really PP.

33m quid on transfer fees and wage bill more than doubled, yet here Derby are, 3 seasons later STILL in the same league.

I guess that's the beauty of being the owner and/or the CEO, it's always someone else's fault.

[valleyram]

Just back in Scotland after that pile of pish , when did we start missing out the midfield and playing long diagonals ? I can't believe what I witnessed today for 90 odd minutes , and you know what an early goal on Tuesday and hull are there for the taking , keep believing guys 

[ipad1977]

33 minutes ago, Gritters said:

Strange thing football. We clearly had our best two performances against Hull this season. The game it really counted and we didn't turn up. May be we could pull another world beating performance out of the hat. I think I'd prefer us to improve next season and get up automatically. Who knows what a good manager could achieve. 

It happens on occasion. As a Boro fan it was the aggregate score in our double over Norwich last year and yet us not turning up for the Playoff final against them that stuck in the craw for us.

From an outside perspective I didn't see quite that result coming today, in hindsight in a lot of your players the season long fight began to tell (probably the same reason Brighton's players are suddenly dropping like flies, it is telling that both Hull and Weds have been resting players in preparation whereas you guys wanted both the momentum carrying on and home advantage in the second leg and Brighton were going full pelt chasing the autos and trying to hammer their GD up in case needed) and selection problems confounded this.

In terms of where you go from here, firstly you go out all guns blazing at the KC as much as is possible. Getting to Wembley will be the mission impossible itself, but that means one that you have nothing to lose, two that the players owe you a decent performance at the very least and that three football is littered with such comebacks. Liverpool this year in the Europa and at Istanbul for the CL trophy and our own in the quarters and semis of the UEFA are just a few examples.

In the longer term, assuming you didn't go up I echo the sentiments of previous posters that after the management situation is settled one way or the other the two positions you most need to recruit in are DM and forward in that order. The 2 stand out candidates in those positions who may be available are Leadbitter at ours (a big if, but he may not be first choice a league up) and McCormack from Fulham, a proven goalscorer longterm in this league (despite playing in a side hugely inferior to yours) though obviously he wouldn't come cheap. Mel is a generous backer but offsetting the cost would be necessary, Blackman and Johnson being a few of the casualties from what I have seen which is hardly surprising to you.

I do believe MM would be prepared to invest however. Finishing 5th is an improvement on the season before and whilst next season will be tricky the season after will be hell as you can take the number of hugely increased PP payment sides dropping down this year and double it. So next year really will be $hit or bust.

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

OK here's hoping for 4-0 to us on Tuesday but realistically 4-0 to them!

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I'm still wondering and waiting to see who takes responsibility for that really PP.

33m quid on transfer fees and wage bill more than doubled, yet here Derby are, 3 seasons later STILL in the same league.

I guess that's the beauty of being the owner and/or the CEO, it's always someone else's fault.

Not only in the same league Ronnie, but our current squad is actually worse than the team which made the 2013/14 playoff final. And we've had so much money spent on this rabble of rubbish.

I don't agree with the Clement bashing though. I feel two 'poor spells' either side of a purple patch is pushing it really. We took four points from the opening five games but played far better than that tally, and the purple patch lasted 19 games with only one defeat among them.

I blame Clement for interfering with a winning team. It all started with the daft changes against Leeds. By the time Reading and Birmingham came around the momentum had fully halted.

The biggest underlying problem though is recruitment. It's been so bad. Johnson, Weimann, Baird, Bent, Camara and Blackman - that's a good £13m squabbled in fees alone. And the wages...

Plus another £11m on Butterfield, Ince and Shackell when in reality none have performed particularly good to say that they've arguably been worth the money spent on them. For £11m I'd expect more.

 

[The Arch Deacon]

4 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said:

That was absolutely toilet, wasn't it? As you might have noticed, I'm a big fan of Butterfield. I believe he's been our standout midfielder over the season despite poor treatment. He's always the one to make way. And for inferior players. The people in this thread suggesting he start today were few and far between. The majority of you wanted Johnson in. Yes, Johnson. The same player who's been largely poor since arriving. Yet you wanted him in, ignoring Butterfield. A few weeks ago, this team were winning regularly, and Butterfield was a key part of that. I enjoyed the Sheff Wed game where he, Bryson and Hughes played together. We created so many chances that day. It's the midfield I wanted today. But no. An unfit, just back from a months layoff, Bradley Johnson waltzes back in and gives the exact performance I expected, the same he's given for 75% of his games in a Derby shirt. Offering zilch going forward, nothing defensively, practically stood on Hughes in the first half, got in Shackell's way once or twice, just clumsy as anything and eventually handed Hull the break they scarcely deserved at that point. 

 

I won't criticise Will. He wasn't great again. In his four starts now, that's two defeats and two draws. And he played a blinder at Brighton. I do think his return is fantastic, I think he's our best player. But I am not sure his return has helped others. Again, going back to Butterfield, imagine how he must be feeling. He's our top scoring midfielder, always a threat from all over the park with his shooting. He's neat and tidy, he works hard. I think it's fair, even if you're not his biggest fan as I am, to say he's had a good season and been a worthwhile recruit. Yet he's dropped for no other reason than to find room for Hughes/Thorne/Bryson. And then falls behind Johnson too in the pecking order. An unfit Johnson at that. I bet the kid's all over the shop. 

 

For what it's worth, I don't believe starting him over Johnson would have been the difference. But I doubt he'd have played as bad as Bradley did. Or Bryson for that matter. I like Craig too. But other than battling (should be a given for each player) he did nothing. Sideways and back throughout. He though improved once Butters came on. We created half chances. We even had a shot or three. 

Ince, Martin and Christie weren't any better than Johnson. They looked disinterested to me. Carson questionable for the first goal. Where were the players for the breakaway third goal? Only Butterfield and Keogh chasing back and neither managed to prevent it. Just capped off a horrid day. Reminded me of Burnley away, where everything went right for the opposition and we were 'having one'. 

 

 

I've now heard Wassall's interview. Oh my God. Take some responsibility man. Blameless as well as clueless. He's right though. We do have a mountain to climb. And we're climbing it with two broken legs and a punctured lung. And it's Everest. 

 

Mass clearout for me this summer. Some of these lads have been here too long now, and keep failing. But the key point needed, something so blatantly missing - pace and power. Everything is too slow, laboured. Too many quality technicians who are also lightweight, and the physical lads are naive or clueless as to how to use their strengths. Even the brilliant of late, Johnny Russell, after a bright start he disappeared and stopped running at them. Hughes, Bryson and Butters are capable playmakers, lock pickers. They keep the ball and it allows us to get up the field, but someone out wide often fudges it, or Martin falls down, or (and this is my biggest foible) the players ahead of that central trio are like statues. No runners. 

 

I think we've some great players here. They've shown it in spells. They've starred for other clubs. But here, they look like they've just signed that morning. Just met each other. I'd like to see big changes this summer. It starts with appointing the right man. And letting HIM sign HIS players to build HIS team, and give him space/time to work within. 

 

I'm still going to Hull. I still believe we can do it. Because I love the Rams. But I make no apologies for that long rant after witnessing that abomination. 

A Tigers fan here that's posted previously and has more than a passing interest in Derby.

Warren, you're absolutely bang on with your assessment. I also picked up that most wanted BJ straight back in the team ahead of JB simply cos his most recent performance was decent despite being garbage for 90% of the season.

I have felt throughout that this fixture was not about Hull v Derby but Bruce v Wassall. That's why the previous results between the two counted for nowt! And in that respect it was man v boy. Way too much nouse, although I accept he is ugly and fat. I couldn't understand the many Derby fans that we're expecting a comfortable Derby win. That said I thought the 3 nil score line flattered us a little. I think 2 would have been about right. The 1st goal was a gift from BJ, the second a fluke and the 3rd a predictable breakaway against a side desperate to get something back.

Allow me to make a few points, bullet stylee!

1. Bruce has been prepping for this from about 10 games out. Once he was fairly sure autos were beyond them he started to rest key players and at the same time give them a strong message that no one was an automatic selection. Elmo, Huddlestone, Hernandez, to name a few, and probably the strongest performers today. He only re-assembled his strongest 11 in the last game or 2 to have them fresh but clicking. 

2. Surely this brings in to question playing Thorne, your only real CDM, in the irrelevant Brighton game.

3. Can you really expect promotion with a back to goal striker significantly slower than most CB's. For me, Tom Ince is better in that role (and I'm no big Ince fan by the way), particularly against our CB's who are not the quickest, but excellent in the air. It just kept being punted up to him and coming straight back.

4. Will Hughes is clearly a talent, but clearly not fully match fit. Bryson clearly bang average, and Johnson clearly crap! But all still selected ahead of JB, who is clearly your most gifted footballer and a regular scorer of worldies inc 2 at the KC.

5. Weimann? Not even on the bench? WTF!!!

You got done today by a team experienced in producing big performances on big days led by a big game manager. It's not all over, in fact it's only half time, but I can't see us not scoring at the KC. In which case you need to score at least 4. Can't see it personally.

I saw several posts offering up a combined Derby Hull 1st 11 which suggested only 2 or 3 City players would make it. I wonder how those same posters would line them up now????

Good luck Tuesday, but I think it's game over. 

 

[Red_Dawn]

On 7 May 2016 at 23:36, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Saturday 14th May -12.30 ko

Home or away first leg of no consequence. Lets bang the drum, fly the flags, wave the scarves and roar til we're raw.

Brucey your guys are gonna get a good spanking (again). Even without GT our lads will run their statuesque midfield in to the ground.

Confident???? You betcha.

Think we'll win???? Yup

Player for player the only player i would select ahead of out first choice 11 would be Hernandez and even that is only a maybe.

We keep a clean sheet we will be Wembley bound. I'm actually pricing up train tickets to London as i pen this thread.

 

[Red_Dawn]

On 8 May 2016 at 18:05, JaguarRam said:

Predictions-

1. Derby to win by 3. Russell, Martin and Bryson.

2. Steve Bruce to look depressed.

3. All the negative people after the Ipswich game to disappear again.

COYR!!!!!!!!!!

You got the scoreline right, just the wrong way. Good effort

[WharfedaleRam]

3 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said:

A Tigers fan here that's posted previously and has more than a passing interest in Derby.

Warren, you're absolutely bang on with your assessment. I also picked up that most wanted BJ straight back in the team ahead of JB simply cos his most recent performance was decent despite being garbage for 90% of the season.

I have felt throughout that this fixture was not about Hull v Derby but Bruce v Wassall. That's why the previous results between the two counted for nowt! And in that respect it was man v boy. Way too much nouse, although I accept he is ugly and fat. I couldn't understand the many Derby fans that we're expecting a comfortable Derby win. That said I thought the 3 nil score line flattered us a little. I think 2 would have been about right. The 1st goal was a gift from BJ, the second a fluke and the 3rd a predictable breakaway against a side desperate to get something back.

Allow me to make a few points, bullet stylee!

1. Bruce has been prepping for this from about 10 games out. Once he was fairly sure autos were beyond them he started to rest key players and at the same time give them a strong message that no one was an automatic selection. Elmo, Huddlestone, Hernandez, to name a few, and probably the strongest performers today. He only re-assembled his strongest 11 in the last game or 2 to have them fresh but clicking. 

2. Surely this brings in to question playing Thorne, your only real CDM, in the irrelevant Brighton game.

3. Can you really expect promotion with a back to goal striker significantly slower than most CB's. For me, Tom Ince is better in that role (and I'm no big Ince fan by the way), particularly against our CB's who are not the quickest, but excellent in the air. It just kept being punted up to him and coming straight back.

4. Will Hughes is clearly a talent, but clearly not fully match fit. Bryson clearly bang average, and Johnson clearly crap! But all still selected ahead of JB, who is clearly your most gifted footballer and a regular scorer of worldies inc 2 at the KC.

5. Weimann? Not even on the bench? WTF!!!

You got done today by a team experienced in producing big performances on big days led by a big game manager. It's not all over, in fact it's only half time, but I can't see us not scoring at the KC. In which case you need to score at least 4. Can't see it personally.

I saw several posts offering up a combined Derby Hull 1st 11 which suggested only 2 or 3 City players would make it. I wonder how those same posters would line them up now????

Good luck Tuesday, but I think it's game over. 

 

If Bryson is bang average, then you're going to win the Prem next season. Enjoy your moment in the spot light, cos if we don't beat you, the Wendies surely will!

[RadioactiveWaste]

Brighton wasn't the irrelevant match throne got injured in. If we'd have not conceded in that match we may have still been looking to snatch 4th.

Ipswich however.....

[Alph]

On the podcast @Srg and @Mostyn6 were saying it sounds stupid but the jury is STILL out on Wassall and the way we perform in the play offs will be the decider. Not necessarily winning but performing. Losing 1-0 to Hull over 2 legs where we boss them and you'd probably vote him in.

I agree.

We've been patchy. You think after QPR and Cardiff that the guy hasn't got anything to offer. Then after a couple of our other games you think that he knows the way to get them back. So it was tricky. 

But come today... it's not just the score. To watch us punt so many diagonals and them not work all game. ALL game!!! How many times do you poke yourself in the eye before you realise it hurts?

2-0 at HT. 

I thought we'll either come out here and stop the diagonals. They're not the way we play and why are we pretending that we do? We'll press the flanks more and and spread the game maybe? 

or

We'll keep the diagonals because Martin is winning a few. Not many, but enough. Only instead of having wasteful, slow thinking or limited passing players picking up from the knock downs... we'll have Hughes swapped up. What he's doing in DM is pretty basic anyway because of the way Hull are set up. Or he'll put Butterfield in there. Or he'll find someone with a bit more quality than Johnson and a bit more craft than Bryson to be in that hole. 

 

 

 

What do we do?

Nothing. Well actually we swap Russell and Ince because we're scared of Hull's right. Which harms both their attacking games. 

We leave it to Johnson and Bryson while Hull try to defend Hughes. Which isn't hard when he's 50 yards from their goal. No swapping. No subs.

And we go with the diagonals again. This time with weaker wings.

He could have done anything and got it wrong. But he did nothing. He made it worse if anything. He made us tighter defensively by having Russell (who tracks back) on the left. WTF? I can't even see what you've tried to do here. We're 2-0 down?!?

And that's it for Wassall pretty much. On the whole we've done ok so I won't slate the guy. But there's been too many glimpses of being completely hopeless. Times when the players natural instinct and partnerships have needed more than motivation. When they've needed better direction and they've looked spent. 

I'd trust him to motivate this team to a good number of wins. But I'd like to believe there's someone out there that can show the players they can still play the same, just alter the direction slightly. 

Under Wassall it's been a bit, if it works then do it. If it doesn't work then do it more. 

Under Mac some games were won on the flanks. Some were won straight down the middle. Sure, we'd get shut out but you'd see a change in the areas we pushed throughout the game. 

Don't see that now. 

[Mr Tibbs]

At least we didn't start selling Wembley t-shirts... 

[North_Stand_Ram]

Don't want to read this thread, because it will make me want to commit, but just a few points for me...

Hughes, why on earth was he kept in CDM when we needed a goal. It was so frustrating. It was like Wassall had told him not to move from the centre circle. Our brightest moments came from a rare venture forward. I can understand starting him there, but keeping him there was ridiculous 

Bent on with FOUR minutes to go. Wow, nice going Wass. 

Their keeper, a relative novice by all accounts despite him being 31, faced 1 shot on target in 90 minutes (a dolly). Whenever the ball went near him, he was dodgy as fook. Why on earth wasn't he tested more, even from distance? In the first 20 minutes we had SO many opportunists to shoot. But our fancy Dan football comes first, clearly. 

Top class performance from Hull, and great game management (time wasting)... Did a proper, proper job on us. Fair play to Brucie

[The Arch Deacon]

1 hour ago, DCFCArmy said:

Fat Bruce can say what he likes

Bit of a bitter rant coming on but this podgy c*** has spent a fortune on this Hull team and yet the media never mention it, preferring to mock us and Boro for our spending. 

We've spent a lot of money on dross there's no getting away from that, but Hull came down with arguably the most expensive squad in this league, some top talent and they've struggled like us.

I hope to god Sheff weds or Brighton do em in the final because their a dull club with a dull manager. Sheff Weds would be decent, spend some money and actually attempt to stay up, whereas Hull and Burnley will just come back down and collect their money thank you very much. That's what really winds me up about failing to go up at the expense of those 2, both do absolutely nothing when they get up there, yet seem to get all the b****** luck in the world in making it. 

 

Calm down DCFC Army. You sound like a bloke whose team just got spanked 3 nil. There was nothing dull about that performance and having seen quite a bit of both teams this season I know where the more exciting footy gets played. Have a drink, smoke a doobie and remember, it's only half time. Bruce Almighty has another chance on Tuesday to toast your Waffle! I'll pass your best wishes on to him! 

[TimRam]

Arch Deacon good post..specially the bit about resting players. I stated during the Ipswich game that Thorne should have been rested, That suggestion got me flamed in the match chat during the game. I have only ever been ashamed to be a Derby fan the once before today. The Reading game a year ago which we needed just a point at home to get into the playoffs. We lost 0-3 and never looked interested. Today counts as second. Apart from the first 20 minutes, never have I seen a team put so little into such an important game. Again, in front of their home fans. I am shocked and disgusted how inept we were. Good luck in the final.